From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 15:11:20 EDT
Who claimed to be neutral? How I veiw and regard myself with Dalamar constantly changes with each issue. There have been times, such as recent, where I am against his testing, but there have also been a couple instances during my rein as Baron, that Dalamar and myself have been in complete agreement. To some extent, this *is* neutrility, but as a whole, I veiw myself as my rank says, which is Renegade. Does this mean I seek to overthow
Dal? No. Now I am not saying I don't want to see him removed, but myself, *I* have no intentions of making the move, as I am very happy where I am. Why spoil a good thing eh? Personally, I don't care about the squabbles that are posted to this board, but when I put my opinions forth, I do not care for others to take what I had to say and put words in my mouth that they wanted to hear, such as you have done. So, as my final thoughts on this matter,
you just go ahead and get the last word in Jeff, it makes no difference to me, for you've not made me look bad in the public eye. I am above these childish squabbles and will refrain from further cluttering of this board with such nonesense.
Huma
#4
Tables Turning.
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 16:11:56 EDT
::writes::
I have kept silent until now, but feel the need to say something, in regards to certain comments about the Laird Tynsdale. Despite any personal differences I my have with the man, I would never make the mistake of saying he doesn't back up his mouth. Ergo put up or shut up does indeed as he says have a hollow ring to it.
Collie
Date: 21 Apr 1998 16:11:56 EDT
::writes::
I have kept silent until now, but feel the need to say something, in regards to certain comments about the Laird Tynsdale. Despite any personal differences I my have with the man, I would never make the mistake of saying he doesn't back up his mouth. Ergo put up or shut up does indeed as he says have a hollow ring to it.
Collie
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 18:13:05 EDT
Hmm.
It occurs to me that, in issuing his challenge based on a perception of "blind loyalty," Kalamere chose the wrong target.
~irm
Date: 21 Apr 1998 18:13:05 EDT
Hmm.
It occurs to me that, in issuing his challenge based on a perception of "blind loyalty," Kalamere chose the wrong target.
~irm
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 18:17:44 EDT
And often "blind loyalty" and "true loyalty" are easily confused....
~J
Date: 21 Apr 1998 18:17:44 EDT
And often "blind loyalty" and "true loyalty" are easily confused....
~J
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From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 19:16:18 EDT
<<It was my impression, brutish fellow, that "clutterin' the boards with [my] whinin' crap" was, indeed doing something. I do hope you've not exchanged brains for brawn once too often...>>
<<Unfortunately maggot, yer the perfect exampled of someone who's bitter >>
<< First ya bitch dat Dal never fights one duel ta decide it, when dat didn't hold much water, ya switch ta quality of opponents? Its quite sad how badly ya wanna make Dal look bad, but ya can't neither with yer arguments nor yer blade, otherwise you'd challenge. Lord MacKenzie may feel ye have made a good point, but I see ya just tryin' ta stir up trouble with yer babble.>>
::very glad to see that Rad finally got got his debate school opened and already has two graduates, then realizes Rad has the most mature of the recent rants::
Huzzah to the Dean.
::unsigned::
Date: 21 Apr 1998 19:16:18 EDT
<<It was my impression, brutish fellow, that "clutterin' the boards with [my] whinin' crap" was, indeed doing something. I do hope you've not exchanged brains for brawn once too often...>>
<<Unfortunately maggot, yer the perfect exampled of someone who's bitter >>
<< First ya bitch dat Dal never fights one duel ta decide it, when dat didn't hold much water, ya switch ta quality of opponents? Its quite sad how badly ya wanna make Dal look bad, but ya can't neither with yer arguments nor yer blade, otherwise you'd challenge. Lord MacKenzie may feel ye have made a good point, but I see ya just tryin' ta stir up trouble with yer babble.>>
::very glad to see that Rad finally got got his debate school opened and already has two graduates, then realizes Rad has the most mature of the recent rants::
Huzzah to the Dean.
::unsigned::
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From: athlstan@aol.com (Athlstan)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:21:02 EDT
::the guardian chuckles::
By the way, Billy Ray... there was at least one person who became Overlord by winning through a test of worthiness.
April 5, 1996
Athlstan def. GoldenLyon, 5-4 in 11 rounds
Athlstan def. Daegarth, 5-2 in 17 rounds.
Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:21:02 EDT
::the guardian chuckles::
By the way, Billy Ray... there was at least one person who became Overlord by winning through a test of worthiness.
April 5, 1996
Athlstan def. GoldenLyon, 5-4 in 11 rounds
Athlstan def. Daegarth, 5-2 in 17 rounds.
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 23:15:16 EDT
::wonders when people are going to realize Zaradda died some time ago and walks off::
((Authors note: The death of Zaradda is posted but saying where would violate ToS. Ergo... IC that's not Rad, folks. ))
Date: 21 Apr 1998 23:15:16 EDT
::wonders when people are going to realize Zaradda died some time ago and walks off::
((Authors note: The death of Zaradda is posted but saying where would violate ToS. Ergo... IC that's not Rad, folks. ))
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 13:52:25 EDT
>>Sid, lass... is this not how ye and were referred to in regard tae Eliah and Draven? Although ye and I know full well our own minds we were spoken of that way. Forgive me fer dredging up old memories if they be bad.<<
Aye, I do remember being called a "blind follower" because I held my loyalty to Elijah as sacred, and still do, though he has passed on. And I seem to recall the same thing said about you when you stuck by Draven.
These reasons are why I hold dear to the belief that accusing someone of blindness because they won't be swayed by naysayers is utterly wrong. I know how it feels, and I will do my best to try to keep others from having to go through the same thing.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
Date: 22 Apr 1998 13:52:25 EDT
>>Sid, lass... is this not how ye and were referred to in regard tae Eliah and Draven? Although ye and I know full well our own minds we were spoken of that way. Forgive me fer dredging up old memories if they be bad.<<
Aye, I do remember being called a "blind follower" because I held my loyalty to Elijah as sacred, and still do, though he has passed on. And I seem to recall the same thing said about you when you stuck by Draven.
These reasons are why I hold dear to the belief that accusing someone of blindness because they won't be swayed by naysayers is utterly wrong. I know how it feels, and I will do my best to try to keep others from having to go through the same thing.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 13:58:07 EDT
>>Disagreeing is not insulting. In fact you are decrying against what you rally for. Iain has said, as have others, that they believe testing a baron wrong. Now they fight, or "Stand up for what they believe in." Yet you call it an insult. Is there a point? You tell me if testing a former overlord is not an insult to one's predacessor and a part of the history of DoS. This was not the first time. To
achieve rank, one must fight all on one's own
to understand honor. Respect is due more than *just* barons, to my way of thinking. Some, like myself, have gone out of their way to make sure that it was known that they were asking for pure answers and yet I see here dissenting parties referred to as mud or dung flingers. That is a ploy that I will not stoop down to refute. I have insulted no one. I have stated the truth about the position of Baron and Overlord that is obvious to any that
choose to look.<<
Brain~
You are just restating my point, not refuting it. For the third time I said (and since nobody seems to understand here, let me say that I am not referring to anyone in particular in my statement) that disagreeing is fine...saying that you don't think what he did was right is fine, as long as you don't revert to petty insults like "he's a coward" and the like.
For the last friggin' time. I could care less if you disagree with his actions. Disagreeing is not what I'm opposed to. It's the insults that are unnecessary.
Have I made myself clear now, or do I have to say it another three times?
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
Date: 22 Apr 1998 13:58:07 EDT
>>Disagreeing is not insulting. In fact you are decrying against what you rally for. Iain has said, as have others, that they believe testing a baron wrong. Now they fight, or "Stand up for what they believe in." Yet you call it an insult. Is there a point? You tell me if testing a former overlord is not an insult to one's predacessor and a part of the history of DoS. This was not the first time. To
achieve rank, one must fight all on one's own
to understand honor. Respect is due more than *just* barons, to my way of thinking. Some, like myself, have gone out of their way to make sure that it was known that they were asking for pure answers and yet I see here dissenting parties referred to as mud or dung flingers. That is a ploy that I will not stoop down to refute. I have insulted no one. I have stated the truth about the position of Baron and Overlord that is obvious to any that
choose to look.<<
Brain~
You are just restating my point, not refuting it. For the third time I said (and since nobody seems to understand here, let me say that I am not referring to anyone in particular in my statement) that disagreeing is fine...saying that you don't think what he did was right is fine, as long as you don't revert to petty insults like "he's a coward" and the like.
For the last friggin' time. I could care less if you disagree with his actions. Disagreeing is not what I'm opposed to. It's the insults that are unnecessary.
Have I made myself clear now, or do I have to say it another three times?
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:01:03 EDT
::reads the records and writes under them::
Now, compare these records with Leto's and see why I am not as apposed to Dal as I was to Leto.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:01:03 EDT
::reads the records and writes under them::
Now, compare these records with Leto's and see why I am not as apposed to Dal as I was to Leto.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:03:45 EDT
>>And often "blind loyalty" and "true loyalty" are easily confused....<<
Here here...perhaps we should start looking more upon the "fickle" rather than the "blind".
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:03:45 EDT
>>And often "blind loyalty" and "true loyalty" are easily confused....<<
Here here...perhaps we should start looking more upon the "fickle" rather than the "blind".
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
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From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 15:27:08 EDT
Ladies and Gentlemen, my evidence:
Sidartha:
Here here...perhaps we should start looking more upon the "fickle" rather than the "blind".
no matter what insults are thrown like dung at you!
Hold the ring well, and rejoice in joining Luthien et al in the position of unmoving rock amid the storm of insults and mud-slinging.
Spite is not a good quality in an Overlord.
What they don't have a right to do is to insult him and those that wish to stand by him, calling him a coward and calling them "blind followers".
This viscious cycle of insult and counter insult must stop, and soon. Or else this sport, and the community within it, is going to suffer irreparable damage.
With this last statment I wholeheartedly agree Sidartha. Yet the evidence show that you feel differently. Or does moral indigantion and loyalty make one more correct in insulting others?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
No time limit or order of process on that truth, is there?
~Brian
Date: 22 Apr 1998 15:27:08 EDT
Ladies and Gentlemen, my evidence:
Sidartha:
Here here...perhaps we should start looking more upon the "fickle" rather than the "blind".
no matter what insults are thrown like dung at you!
Hold the ring well, and rejoice in joining Luthien et al in the position of unmoving rock amid the storm of insults and mud-slinging.
Spite is not a good quality in an Overlord.
What they don't have a right to do is to insult him and those that wish to stand by him, calling him a coward and calling them "blind followers".
This viscious cycle of insult and counter insult must stop, and soon. Or else this sport, and the community within it, is going to suffer irreparable damage.
With this last statment I wholeheartedly agree Sidartha. Yet the evidence show that you feel differently. Or does moral indigantion and loyalty make one more correct in insulting others?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
No time limit or order of process on that truth, is there?
~Brian
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 16:15:34 EDT
Brian~
There's a difference, a small one, but a difference nonetheless.
Where did I ever insult a person in particular.
I insult the action (ie, the action of being fickle, the action of throwing personal attacks, etc), not the person. If someone wants to take personal insult, that's their problem.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
Date: 22 Apr 1998 16:15:34 EDT
Brian~
There's a difference, a small one, but a difference nonetheless.
Where did I ever insult a person in particular.
I insult the action (ie, the action of being fickle, the action of throwing personal attacks, etc), not the person. If someone wants to take personal insult, that's their problem.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
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From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 17:25:21 EDT
There's a difference, a small one, but a difference nonetheless.
I insult the action (ie, the action of being fickle, the action of throwing personal attacks, etc), not the person. If someone wants to take personal insult, that's their problem.
Sidartha,
So prejudice against a group is more acceptable than questioning an individual's actions?
Do you not condemn for what you are admitting to openly?
It is Dalamar's actions that are being questioned not his character. I believe you find in every case listed (most espicially Iain and Kalamere) about Dalamar, they question his use of the Test of Worthiness. An action. Not his person.
Oddly enough the same thing you are claiming you are doing.
I have the evidence of who is more quick to throw out names, so I need no convincing. There is a preponderance of the written record which colors my stance on who has taken the path of name calling and who has stayed to a fine point. It is decided by what is written, not what I assume to be meant. The evidence leads me to this conclusion: When one seeks to take an argument to the moral high ground it is always best to practice what you preach.
Constant,
~Brian Girvin
Date: 22 Apr 1998 17:25:21 EDT
There's a difference, a small one, but a difference nonetheless.
I insult the action (ie, the action of being fickle, the action of throwing personal attacks, etc), not the person. If someone wants to take personal insult, that's their problem.
Sidartha,
So prejudice against a group is more acceptable than questioning an individual's actions?
Do you not condemn for what you are admitting to openly?
It is Dalamar's actions that are being questioned not his character. I believe you find in every case listed (most espicially Iain and Kalamere) about Dalamar, they question his use of the Test of Worthiness. An action. Not his person.
Oddly enough the same thing you are claiming you are doing.
I have the evidence of who is more quick to throw out names, so I need no convincing. There is a preponderance of the written record which colors my stance on who has taken the path of name calling and who has stayed to a fine point. It is decided by what is written, not what I assume to be meant. The evidence leads me to this conclusion: When one seeks to take an argument to the moral high ground it is always best to practice what you preach.
Constant,
~Brian Girvin
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 18:21:45 EDT
>>So prejudice against a group is more acceptable than questioning an individual's actions?
<<
When did I say this? I'm not accusing you of lying, I just don't remember saying this. On the contrary, I remember what I said in just the last posting, how I am not making personal attacks on anyone, only their actions.
>>It is Dalamar's actions that are being questioned not his character. I believe you find in every case listed (most espicially Iain and Kalamere) about Dalamar, they question his use of the Test of Worthiness. An action. Not his person.<<
So you are saying that calling someone a coward is not insulting them personally?
>>I have the evidence of who is more quick to throw out names, so I need no convincing. There is a preponderance of the written record which colors my stance on who has taken the path of name calling and who has stayed to a fine point. It is decided by what is written, not what I assume to be meant. The evidence leads me to this conclusion: When one seeks to take an argument to the moral high ground it is always best to practice what you
preach.<<
The problem with using the written word as a way to debate is that it's easy to misunderstand. For example, I keep trying to agree with you, but it only comes out sounding like I'm arguing with you.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
Date: 22 Apr 1998 18:21:45 EDT
>>So prejudice against a group is more acceptable than questioning an individual's actions?
<<
When did I say this? I'm not accusing you of lying, I just don't remember saying this. On the contrary, I remember what I said in just the last posting, how I am not making personal attacks on anyone, only their actions.
>>It is Dalamar's actions that are being questioned not his character. I believe you find in every case listed (most espicially Iain and Kalamere) about Dalamar, they question his use of the Test of Worthiness. An action. Not his person.<<
So you are saying that calling someone a coward is not insulting them personally?
>>I have the evidence of who is more quick to throw out names, so I need no convincing. There is a preponderance of the written record which colors my stance on who has taken the path of name calling and who has stayed to a fine point. It is decided by what is written, not what I assume to be meant. The evidence leads me to this conclusion: When one seeks to take an argument to the moral high ground it is always best to practice what you
preach.<<
The problem with using the written word as a way to debate is that it's easy to misunderstand. For example, I keep trying to agree with you, but it only comes out sounding like I'm arguing with you.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands