From: novashayde@aol.com (NovaShayde)
Date: 20 Apr 1998 08:52:06 EDT
To the dueling community as a whole,
With the recent rash of idiocy plastered to these boards, I feel the need to post challenge. The continual debate over who is wrong and right holds no truck in this Arena, for, when the matches begin, the politics cease and only sport is left. This Arena was built on sport and recreation, not on political trash talking and abilities to prove your opponents wrong in their manners and challenges.
When I began here, there were no barons, there was no idiotic spoutings over loyalists and renegades and the validity of who should challenge and who should not. Surely, there were people that believed someone else wasn't truly worthy of holding the title of Overlord, but they could do nothing about it. With the overload of rules and "rights" given to the highest ranks when the Barony was created, people whose opinions were merely that, just
an opinion, were now given opportunity to press their opinions to others in a variety of ways. Tests of Worthiness, Champions, etc, etc...
I can assure you, one and all, the creators of the Baronies never intended a mockery of the sport such as this to occur. Most rant and rave, continually stating their opinions as if they hold sway over some other individual (perhaps for some, their opinions do indeed influence the opinions of others). This is not what I *ever* believed the Arena to be.
Many wonder why I interceeded on behalf of the Renegade Baron Evan. I will tell you that I did not know him very well at all when I decided to offer myself as Champion. To be honest, I didn't care to know what kind of person he was. He was a Baron, he defeated Kaprielle to obtain his ring, and he wished to challenge the Overlord. It was not my place to question his "worth". It was, however, my place to question whether or not a Baron
should be able to challenge an Overlord without interference. That is what we old people refer to as the "sport" here and that concerns every single one of us from Commoner to Overlord. The man issued challenge, regardless of personal vendettas or feelings on either side, he should have met Dalamar in the ring with no questions or Champions.
Yet still, there was a Champion to be found. As such, I was required to enter the ring and defend the Baron's right to press challenge to the Overlord. I am not a Pollyanna about this sport, I am well aware that the Arena is no longer the place I once enjoyed and likely never will be again. Still, this business saddens me. I was the first baron to admit loyalty to Dalamar when his reign began. He told me explicitly that he would not toss
about Tests of Worthiness (to Baronial challengers and more than likely the Overlord, my memory fails me on the conditions, old age, of course) as if they were schoolhouse report cards like Athlstan did before him. Yet, now, what have we? Something indeed worse.
The sport has been replaced by the politics, the fun has become a question of who is right and who is wrong, and the Arena has taken on the moniker of some sort of monarchy where the policies of one man become the adherence of countless others and any that go against these policies are inherently bad and must be culled from the masses.
It is time for a challenge to one and all. In the name of sport and in disregard to political garbage, those of you that hold rank of consequence and shall hold such ranks in the future: Fight your own battles. I'm well aware that the political policy of "Testing worthiness" is mostly meant to keep those unloved from gaining a rank of consequence, yet I can count many a time in the past where someone not well liked took a high ranking
position. Yet, somehow, the Arena still stands... so someone frankly putrid in attitude and manner holding rank really doesn't effect this Arena all that much.
I think many of us can agree that, when the politics are swept aside to examine the true reasons that barons allow intercessions and overlords use tests, we find that the base of these policies is thus: The holder of the title in question is merely afraid of losing that title. This is where the politics enters our Arena. True, we may think someone we all don't like would ruin the Arena... but we find ourselves in a classic overcorrection
whereby we use politics to keep these people out of power, thus ruining the sport ourselves.
As this Arena was built on sport, it is simple to say: Fight for yourself. Win. Or Lose. Should you lose, get back up, dust yourself off, and take your ring or crown back, if you treat your opponent with respect, it's doubtless that he or she will return the favor and meet you in the ring on their own. Should you win, rejoice in the fact that you have allowed another to enjoy this sport by meeting them face to face.
If you wish a true challenge, fight your own battles. If you wish to play at Julius Caesar and his Senators, join the RhyDin Drama Troupe or the Junior Politics League in the Inn. I assure you that the longer warlords are forced to meet those they do not challenge in the rings, the worse their attitudes will become and the more the Arena as a whole will suffer. Let's start trying to push the Arena back toward an establishment of sport and
recreation... it certainly won't hurt us. I think we can all agree the politics have gotten out of hand, it's time for a different tactic. Try it out for yourselves... you may find the Arena to be a much better place.
As always, my opinion is known, opinions shall differ... but respectful opinions are always heard.
Enjoy yourselves,
Nova Grey Shadow
Challenge of Grey Shadow
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From: dukeuziei@aol.com (Duke UzieI)
Date: 20 Apr 1998 10:32:09 EDT
Nova GreyShadow,
I am replying to you not to call names, or to decry your view, but engage in a rational debate, as I have, somewhat more heatedly with Lord Mackenzie in the previous postings.
I am new to this sport......well, new compared to some, and in my time here I have seen a wonderous place of politics and intrigue....all based upon might or arm and allies. I have seen and participated in the rise and fall of Houses, Overlords and Barons, I have been the victor and the defeated, in the rings, and in the political arena that feeds those very rings and keeps them alive with the blood of feud and friendly rivalry.
I, Adonai Uziel, never saw this black and white Arena you speak of. Where things were merely the dance of steel in the rings and to the victor goes the spoils. Seems to me that a place such as that would become dry and boring...and that eventually the repetitiveness of action, take and lose, challenge and take, that being the entire center of the sport, would be....to me, enough to eventually bore the most die hard practioners of the sport
and cause them to find new vistas to challenge.
I personally like the Arena the way it is. Yes. Some things become so personal that it is want to cause others stress or dissapointment. Yes....I have been part of these things, well nigh since my enterance to the sport. But I say this....with little doubt in my mind. The Arena you once loved is not gone, nor has it irrevocabally changed into something bad. I say to you that the Arena has *grown up*. The place you once knew, in its own
conception and beginnings, formed the very skirmishes you so dislike, the power struggles and the Houses, the lust for dominace and the wielding of power were things designed into the sport itself, by the very rules and ideals that the patrons of this sport designed made this place into what it is now.
Yes....I suppose someone such as yourself, with their sense of honor and good sportsmanship could duel the duels as you believe they should be dueled. But the gaining and holding of titles opens you to yet another level of the game, where before it was merely dueling to gain rank, enjoying the company of good companions and good times, it is after that, all of that and more. It is knowing who your friends are, and knowing who you can depend
on. It is the knowledge of rules to the letter, and the loopholes therein you may use to maintain your position, it is the Test and intercessions, skillfully and politically used to maintain your hold on power and those that maintain it with you. It is using the combonation of all this knowledge, plus a good ear and a mighty arm that allows factions, Renegade or Loyal to maintain their political footholds in the realm and influnenece the Council, and
maintain each other, in checks and balances, Renegades balancing the Loyals, if possible.
Now, can you possibly say that with the knowledge of the greater game within, that you would like to dispose of what makes this place the most colorful and enjoyable (barring the few instances when personal dislikes take things far to far) place in the RDI complex? Legends of the rise and Fall of Houses and powerful figures within this sport make it what it is....there is little to be had in the making of legends to be had in the other Arenas.
Here, nations have been born, legends made and the world defined. Would you have us degenerate into merely yet another hall where any beginner with the right amount of luck and the appropriate timing can hold the title of supreme dueler of the sport? Or would you rather have those that wish that not to be to have the options at hand to at least TRY to make changes or maintain stability as they see fit?
As I said...I much prefer my latter suggestion. Give me a place that I can be who I am, and meddle and plot and laugh malefically when my plans come to fruitition, give me a place where I can have trusted allies that are loyal to me as friends, and that I am loyal to in return, give me a place where one group is set against the other...and there is strife and many factions of known or unknown goals, a place where allies and enemies abound,
and the might of blade is matched in power by the strength of wit and the political savvy of those that play the great game of, as my beautiful daughter puts it, *King of the Hill*.
This is the Arena *I* know and love, yes...some things have hurt me, some have hurt others, but then, you lose and you get back up and you fight again, whether in the ring, or on the political battlefield I love so much.
Without the combonation of all these things, the Arena would be a shadow of what it should be, and I applaud those that had the foresight to have made this sport into near a realm of its own through the expansion of the Baronies and the implementation of the very rules, the UTC, which make the game of, *Julius Caesar and his Senators* as you put it Nova, possible.
If you ask me.....I wouldn't have it any other way.
Respectfully,
~Adonai Uziel~
~DragonLord of RhyDin~
~Baron of the Seventh~
Date: 20 Apr 1998 10:32:09 EDT
Nova GreyShadow,
I am replying to you not to call names, or to decry your view, but engage in a rational debate, as I have, somewhat more heatedly with Lord Mackenzie in the previous postings.
I am new to this sport......well, new compared to some, and in my time here I have seen a wonderous place of politics and intrigue....all based upon might or arm and allies. I have seen and participated in the rise and fall of Houses, Overlords and Barons, I have been the victor and the defeated, in the rings, and in the political arena that feeds those very rings and keeps them alive with the blood of feud and friendly rivalry.
I, Adonai Uziel, never saw this black and white Arena you speak of. Where things were merely the dance of steel in the rings and to the victor goes the spoils. Seems to me that a place such as that would become dry and boring...and that eventually the repetitiveness of action, take and lose, challenge and take, that being the entire center of the sport, would be....to me, enough to eventually bore the most die hard practioners of the sport
and cause them to find new vistas to challenge.
I personally like the Arena the way it is. Yes. Some things become so personal that it is want to cause others stress or dissapointment. Yes....I have been part of these things, well nigh since my enterance to the sport. But I say this....with little doubt in my mind. The Arena you once loved is not gone, nor has it irrevocabally changed into something bad. I say to you that the Arena has *grown up*. The place you once knew, in its own
conception and beginnings, formed the very skirmishes you so dislike, the power struggles and the Houses, the lust for dominace and the wielding of power were things designed into the sport itself, by the very rules and ideals that the patrons of this sport designed made this place into what it is now.
Yes....I suppose someone such as yourself, with their sense of honor and good sportsmanship could duel the duels as you believe they should be dueled. But the gaining and holding of titles opens you to yet another level of the game, where before it was merely dueling to gain rank, enjoying the company of good companions and good times, it is after that, all of that and more. It is knowing who your friends are, and knowing who you can depend
on. It is the knowledge of rules to the letter, and the loopholes therein you may use to maintain your position, it is the Test and intercessions, skillfully and politically used to maintain your hold on power and those that maintain it with you. It is using the combonation of all this knowledge, plus a good ear and a mighty arm that allows factions, Renegade or Loyal to maintain their political footholds in the realm and influnenece the Council, and
maintain each other, in checks and balances, Renegades balancing the Loyals, if possible.
Now, can you possibly say that with the knowledge of the greater game within, that you would like to dispose of what makes this place the most colorful and enjoyable (barring the few instances when personal dislikes take things far to far) place in the RDI complex? Legends of the rise and Fall of Houses and powerful figures within this sport make it what it is....there is little to be had in the making of legends to be had in the other Arenas.
Here, nations have been born, legends made and the world defined. Would you have us degenerate into merely yet another hall where any beginner with the right amount of luck and the appropriate timing can hold the title of supreme dueler of the sport? Or would you rather have those that wish that not to be to have the options at hand to at least TRY to make changes or maintain stability as they see fit?
As I said...I much prefer my latter suggestion. Give me a place that I can be who I am, and meddle and plot and laugh malefically when my plans come to fruitition, give me a place where I can have trusted allies that are loyal to me as friends, and that I am loyal to in return, give me a place where one group is set against the other...and there is strife and many factions of known or unknown goals, a place where allies and enemies abound,
and the might of blade is matched in power by the strength of wit and the political savvy of those that play the great game of, as my beautiful daughter puts it, *King of the Hill*.
This is the Arena *I* know and love, yes...some things have hurt me, some have hurt others, but then, you lose and you get back up and you fight again, whether in the ring, or on the political battlefield I love so much.
Without the combonation of all these things, the Arena would be a shadow of what it should be, and I applaud those that had the foresight to have made this sport into near a realm of its own through the expansion of the Baronies and the implementation of the very rules, the UTC, which make the game of, *Julius Caesar and his Senators* as you put it Nova, possible.
If you ask me.....I wouldn't have it any other way.
Respectfully,
~Adonai Uziel~
~DragonLord of RhyDin~
~Baron of the Seventh~
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 20 Apr 1998 11:56:59 EDT
::Reads Adonai's post and nods in agreement, thinking out loud::
Only thing I would change, is being able to get more wins for myself
::Chuckles, then goes home to his dear Noelle::
Date: 20 Apr 1998 11:56:59 EDT
::Reads Adonai's post and nods in agreement, thinking out loud::
Only thing I would change, is being able to get more wins for myself
::Chuckles, then goes home to his dear Noelle::
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From: novashayde@aol.com (NovaShayde)
Date: 20 Apr 1998 12:28:17 EDT
Adonai,
The Arena I once loved is indeed gone. The day people decided they couldn't fight for themselves in the name of sport and honor, it was crushed to death beneath a yoke of admonitions and stipulations. Indeed, politics are intriguing, but they have no place here. The entirity of my posting was a suggestion that, should people fight their own battles, win or lose, this Arena would be a lot less spiteful and a lot more fun. One cannot argue that
these politics have come round to a series of ugly confrontations and petty squabbles.
The Arena was built on friendship and sport, I've said this many a time. The only place politics have here are to be discussed amongst friends concerning government of nations between duels. Less spite, more fight. It's as simple as that.
I don't think anyone here has the tenacity to state that the recent arguments over who should challenge and who deserves some sort of testing (also known as "politics") has done this Arena any good. Especially in the eyes of the lower ranks. I do not presume to speak for them, but I have no doubt that they stare up at the highest ranks and can't help but feel some sort of sad bewilderment when people who are supposed to be the pillars of this
sport engage in petty squabbles because people that have challenged them never get to face them. Who would really aspire to greater things when ninety-percent of the warlords waste their time and peer wins when they challenge a Loyal Baron because they end up facing someone who shouldn't have anything to do with the challenge if this were to be just a sport?
To put it simply, "worthiness" is a political excuse here. It is not the Overlord's place, nor yours or mine, to decide who is worthy to hold a ring or a crown. The judgement of worth is held within the challenger's own heart and blade and with his or her own God. I will continue to adhere to the suggestion that this Arena would be much better suited to return to sport and turn away from political garbage, for, I assure you, my friend, for
every one person that shares your view that these politics lends some sort of integrity or interest to the Arena, there are ten others that feel politics should have no place in an establishment of honor and sport. Some would even say there is no room for honor within politics... and, looking over the recent issues, I'm forced to lean toward this statement being a sad, sad fact.
Respectfully,
Nova Grey Shadow
Date: 20 Apr 1998 12:28:17 EDT
Adonai,
The Arena I once loved is indeed gone. The day people decided they couldn't fight for themselves in the name of sport and honor, it was crushed to death beneath a yoke of admonitions and stipulations. Indeed, politics are intriguing, but they have no place here. The entirity of my posting was a suggestion that, should people fight their own battles, win or lose, this Arena would be a lot less spiteful and a lot more fun. One cannot argue that
these politics have come round to a series of ugly confrontations and petty squabbles.
The Arena was built on friendship and sport, I've said this many a time. The only place politics have here are to be discussed amongst friends concerning government of nations between duels. Less spite, more fight. It's as simple as that.
I don't think anyone here has the tenacity to state that the recent arguments over who should challenge and who deserves some sort of testing (also known as "politics") has done this Arena any good. Especially in the eyes of the lower ranks. I do not presume to speak for them, but I have no doubt that they stare up at the highest ranks and can't help but feel some sort of sad bewilderment when people who are supposed to be the pillars of this
sport engage in petty squabbles because people that have challenged them never get to face them. Who would really aspire to greater things when ninety-percent of the warlords waste their time and peer wins when they challenge a Loyal Baron because they end up facing someone who shouldn't have anything to do with the challenge if this were to be just a sport?
To put it simply, "worthiness" is a political excuse here. It is not the Overlord's place, nor yours or mine, to decide who is worthy to hold a ring or a crown. The judgement of worth is held within the challenger's own heart and blade and with his or her own God. I will continue to adhere to the suggestion that this Arena would be much better suited to return to sport and turn away from political garbage, for, I assure you, my friend, for
every one person that shares your view that these politics lends some sort of integrity or interest to the Arena, there are ten others that feel politics should have no place in an establishment of honor and sport. Some would even say there is no room for honor within politics... and, looking over the recent issues, I'm forced to lean toward this statement being a sad, sad fact.
Respectfully,
Nova Grey Shadow
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 20 Apr 1998 16:24:33 EDT
Shadow:
It strikes me as a great irony that you so eloquently expressed the heart of the matter, when I have apparently failed to do so myself.
I would take issue with you on minor points; I do feel that an Overlord is justified in testing a Warlord seeking his own title, especially a Warlord with no track record to lean on. I have no objection to the Overlord protecting his loyal Barons. Frankly, had Dalamar stated publicly for all to see that he was not testing Evan's worthiness, but protecting the highest seat in this sport from a wholly unsuitable candidate, my offense would have been
lessened.
But that, of course, is the problem. When offense is taken, the offending party is entirely too quick to point to the rules, rather than having the nerve to stand up and publicly say, "I am ensuring what is mine." In doing so, they are tacitly saying that the ability to do a thing is more important than the reasons for doing so. It is the failure to stand up and explicitly state one's policy that distresses me; or, rather, it is the reasons why
one does not stand up and state that policy. As you can see, being perfectly plain about your intentions and goals is almost always seen as duplicitous here, while covering one's true motives under a blanket of 'honor' is seen as heroic. Ironic, don't you think?
I remain,
Iain MacKenzie
Lord Tynsdale
Warlord and Thrice-Baron of the Duel of Swords.
Date: 20 Apr 1998 16:24:33 EDT
Shadow:
It strikes me as a great irony that you so eloquently expressed the heart of the matter, when I have apparently failed to do so myself.
I would take issue with you on minor points; I do feel that an Overlord is justified in testing a Warlord seeking his own title, especially a Warlord with no track record to lean on. I have no objection to the Overlord protecting his loyal Barons. Frankly, had Dalamar stated publicly for all to see that he was not testing Evan's worthiness, but protecting the highest seat in this sport from a wholly unsuitable candidate, my offense would have been
lessened.
But that, of course, is the problem. When offense is taken, the offending party is entirely too quick to point to the rules, rather than having the nerve to stand up and publicly say, "I am ensuring what is mine." In doing so, they are tacitly saying that the ability to do a thing is more important than the reasons for doing so. It is the failure to stand up and explicitly state one's policy that distresses me; or, rather, it is the reasons why
one does not stand up and state that policy. As you can see, being perfectly plain about your intentions and goals is almost always seen as duplicitous here, while covering one's true motives under a blanket of 'honor' is seen as heroic. Ironic, don't you think?
I remain,
Iain MacKenzie
Lord Tynsdale
Warlord and Thrice-Baron of the Duel of Swords.
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From: xvevan@aol.com (XvEvan)
Date: 20 Apr 1998 18:20:57 EDT
::posts::
To all,
As it stands, I do have to agree with Nova. The past was just set upon the rules. A challenge was posted and no or very little fighting came upon the matter. Yet now, every one gets pounded, inless the Baron wants the challenge to come forth. As of now though, the old and the new are clashing. And do to this, we have this "mud slinging" upon the boards. One tring to voice his thoughts ((or actions)) over another. One side is tring to find
just in having poeple step into challenges and the others, not, finding they would rather meet there blades to the challengers blade. Nothing more than fighting about the rules set forth when DoS was made, and rules that have come along. I do ask though, if you are to take a higher ranking, you know challenges will come like bats out of hell. So what you do then is up to you, so expect this ((inless you are Jeff or Billy)).
-Evan
-Once holder of the First Ring
Date: 20 Apr 1998 18:20:57 EDT
::posts::
To all,
As it stands, I do have to agree with Nova. The past was just set upon the rules. A challenge was posted and no or very little fighting came upon the matter. Yet now, every one gets pounded, inless the Baron wants the challenge to come forth. As of now though, the old and the new are clashing. And do to this, we have this "mud slinging" upon the boards. One tring to voice his thoughts ((or actions)) over another. One side is tring to find
just in having poeple step into challenges and the others, not, finding they would rather meet there blades to the challengers blade. Nothing more than fighting about the rules set forth when DoS was made, and rules that have come along. I do ask though, if you are to take a higher ranking, you know challenges will come like bats out of hell. So what you do then is up to you, so expect this ((inless you are Jeff or Billy)).
-Evan
-Once holder of the First Ring
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From: karnafexx@aol.com (Karnafexx)
Date: 20 Apr 1998 23:39:54 EDT
<<If you wish a true challenge, fight your own battles. If you wish to play at Julius Caesar and his Senators, join the RhyDin Drama Troupe or the Junior Politics League in the Inn. I assure you that the longer warlords are forced to meet those they do not challenge in the rings, the worse their attitudes will become and the more the Arena as a whole will suffer.>>
Why not just tell these warlords ta' get better? If ya' can't beat two duelers in a row maybe ya' ain't all that and a cup of coolaid....A few of us have had ta' go through 3-4-5 or more duelers ta' get rings, why can't any of these snot nosed kids (and I use this term with the best intentions) beat two peers? Half the time someone like Huma will step in or a champion like yerself (Nova) so the odds are evened up. Maybe if Evan hadn't dueled like
his shoelaces were tied the first three rounds he would have won, who knows.
Instead of gettin' yer chainmail all rusty with yer tears, why don't some of ya' tough guys and girls who think Dal doesn't belong there step up?! Is it because so many have before ya' and got swatted?! Is it because Dal has supporters who are just better duelers on the whole? Is it because ya' just like ta' hear yer own voices? Why...why....why?
If *you* aren't willin' ta' put up the 15 peer wins and take the risk, don't bother complainin' how bad the situation is....if you can't do anythin' besides write down the gripes and hope others get inspired, don't waste everyone's time.
Basically...
Put up or shut up.
Is that so hard?
I thought so.
::Written in choppy red crayola::
Billy Ray
AKA: Karnafexx
"Simply the Best"
Date: 20 Apr 1998 23:39:54 EDT
<<If you wish a true challenge, fight your own battles. If you wish to play at Julius Caesar and his Senators, join the RhyDin Drama Troupe or the Junior Politics League in the Inn. I assure you that the longer warlords are forced to meet those they do not challenge in the rings, the worse their attitudes will become and the more the Arena as a whole will suffer.>>
Why not just tell these warlords ta' get better? If ya' can't beat two duelers in a row maybe ya' ain't all that and a cup of coolaid....A few of us have had ta' go through 3-4-5 or more duelers ta' get rings, why can't any of these snot nosed kids (and I use this term with the best intentions) beat two peers? Half the time someone like Huma will step in or a champion like yerself (Nova) so the odds are evened up. Maybe if Evan hadn't dueled like
his shoelaces were tied the first three rounds he would have won, who knows.
Instead of gettin' yer chainmail all rusty with yer tears, why don't some of ya' tough guys and girls who think Dal doesn't belong there step up?! Is it because so many have before ya' and got swatted?! Is it because Dal has supporters who are just better duelers on the whole? Is it because ya' just like ta' hear yer own voices? Why...why....why?
If *you* aren't willin' ta' put up the 15 peer wins and take the risk, don't bother complainin' how bad the situation is....if you can't do anythin' besides write down the gripes and hope others get inspired, don't waste everyone's time.
Basically...
Put up or shut up.
Is that so hard?
I thought so.
::Written in choppy red crayola::
Billy Ray
AKA: Karnafexx
"Simply the Best"
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From: novashayde@aol.com (NovaShayde)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 09:42:12 EDT
Why, Billy Ray?
Because it's simply a waste of time. There's no use fighting over the captain's chair on a sinking ship. And, of course you missed my point, where my *opinion* was stated and the *opinion* was the course of action. Silence suggests compliance, opinion dictates otherwise.
Dal's a big boy. He can fight his battles without hiding behind your apron, Billy Ray... we've all seen he can do it. The same goes for his Loyal Barons. The issue in question is why they do not fight for themselves and why the rules allow the Overlord to brings politics into a place where they don't belong. If anyone should be able to appreciate a wish for more sport and less political babble, I would think it would be you. To whit: "Put
up, or shut up". One would think "putting up" is something to be done on one's own, not through a Champion or Intercession. You can't very well "Put up" your own ability through someone else. It's a bit of a Catch 22 here, it doesn't seem plausible for one to shut up when what they're speaking of is another's inability or unwillingness to put up.
I encourage everyone to fight their own battles, we shouldn't have to see you in the ring to defend an Overlord that's perfectly capable of defending himself. It just seems silly when the Arena is examined as a sport. As my entire point was: We need less politics and more sport. Think on that and tell me if that's so hard a thing to ask. I thought not.
Respectfully,
Nova Grey Shadow
Date: 21 Apr 1998 09:42:12 EDT
Why, Billy Ray?
Because it's simply a waste of time. There's no use fighting over the captain's chair on a sinking ship. And, of course you missed my point, where my *opinion* was stated and the *opinion* was the course of action. Silence suggests compliance, opinion dictates otherwise.
Dal's a big boy. He can fight his battles without hiding behind your apron, Billy Ray... we've all seen he can do it. The same goes for his Loyal Barons. The issue in question is why they do not fight for themselves and why the rules allow the Overlord to brings politics into a place where they don't belong. If anyone should be able to appreciate a wish for more sport and less political babble, I would think it would be you. To whit: "Put
up, or shut up". One would think "putting up" is something to be done on one's own, not through a Champion or Intercession. You can't very well "Put up" your own ability through someone else. It's a bit of a Catch 22 here, it doesn't seem plausible for one to shut up when what they're speaking of is another's inability or unwillingness to put up.
I encourage everyone to fight their own battles, we shouldn't have to see you in the ring to defend an Overlord that's perfectly capable of defending himself. It just seems silly when the Arena is examined as a sport. As my entire point was: We need less politics and more sport. Think on that and tell me if that's so hard a thing to ask. I thought not.
Respectfully,
Nova Grey Shadow
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From: dukeuziei@aol.com (Duke UzieI)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 11:06:07 EDT
::reads through the varied posts and walks away with an even deeper respect for his former mentor::
Or as Luthien put it Diablo,
They may go forth and pound sand
::smirks::
~Adonai Uziel~
~DragonLord of RhyDin~
~Baron of the Seventh~
Date: 21 Apr 1998 11:06:07 EDT
::reads through the varied posts and walks away with an even deeper respect for his former mentor::
Or as Luthien put it Diablo,
They may go forth and pound sand
::smirks::
~Adonai Uziel~
~DragonLord of RhyDin~
~Baron of the Seventh~
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 12:16:13 EDT
::Writes briefly, exhausted::
Lord Nova,
Though I see your point, I want to say some things. Adonai paraphrased earlier, saying that you view the arena as "black and white". It's one way or the other, right? If you feel that people should fight their own battles, they'd be making it either black or white. See what I mean? If you truly want variation in the DoS, you have to let people be themselves, because the various people add various colors of the community.
Some of these people feel they have an obligation to fight for someone else. Moreover, sometimes the offer of help cannot be declined. These cases I cannot describe, but it's all in one another's psyche, which cannot be controlled. One may be compelled to do something every morning, because it's their personality to do it. If one allows a friend to fight a battle for them, then it's their right.
I will make an exception, however. Some telepaths helped others in tournaments (as we all realize), and it is not fair to the opponent. Why is this? I feel that if something is not known to the opponent, and you choose to "omit" a fact, then you're lying. Lying in a gentleman's sport is, in my opinion, dishnorable.
Thank you for reading my thoughts.
±
"When you throw mud, your hands become dirty"
"There is only one way to achieve immortality; you must accomplish good, and let the memory of your goodness live forever, among others"
Date: 21 Apr 1998 12:16:13 EDT
::Writes briefly, exhausted::
Lord Nova,
Though I see your point, I want to say some things. Adonai paraphrased earlier, saying that you view the arena as "black and white". It's one way or the other, right? If you feel that people should fight their own battles, they'd be making it either black or white. See what I mean? If you truly want variation in the DoS, you have to let people be themselves, because the various people add various colors of the community.
Some of these people feel they have an obligation to fight for someone else. Moreover, sometimes the offer of help cannot be declined. These cases I cannot describe, but it's all in one another's psyche, which cannot be controlled. One may be compelled to do something every morning, because it's their personality to do it. If one allows a friend to fight a battle for them, then it's their right.
I will make an exception, however. Some telepaths helped others in tournaments (as we all realize), and it is not fair to the opponent. Why is this? I feel that if something is not known to the opponent, and you choose to "omit" a fact, then you're lying. Lying in a gentleman's sport is, in my opinion, dishnorable.
Thank you for reading my thoughts.
±
"When you throw mud, your hands become dirty"
"There is only one way to achieve immortality; you must accomplish good, and let the memory of your goodness live forever, among others"
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From: karyepezd@aol.com (Karye PezD)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 13:07:59 EDT
::purposely changes her handwriting::
At last, someone who realizes it's a damn sport!
::left unsigned::
Date: 21 Apr 1998 13:07:59 EDT
::purposely changes her handwriting::
At last, someone who realizes it's a damn sport!
::left unsigned::
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From: novashayde@aol.com (NovaShayde)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 15:03:45 EDT
Var,
Thank you for taking the time to reply, but I do have to clear this up. I never stated the Arena was in any way black or white, it is not one way or the other, or rather, it should not be. As it stands, we are leaning more toward the black (to continue the analogy) than we are toward any other color, were black to symbolize heavy political ramblings. Personalities add the color of this sport (and we all know how personalities differ here), yet
it seems that many different personalities are melting together into the face of an overprotective fatherly figure where the Overlord must be beaten before a challenge to a Baron can commence and a Champion must be defeated before a challenge to said Overlord can go on (i.e. Politics). I in no way suggested that people could not act in whatever way they see fit, but I did suggest that they *should* not let others fight their battles for them.
I know and you know that each and every one of us is perfectly capable of dueling for ourselves. The Arena got along very well when no one could step in on anyone else's behalf and this in no way limited the compulsions of others. If a friend would like to duel in the name of another, he or she is perfectly welcome to take their fight to whomever their friend happens to lose to (as we saw when Moralitor the Black and Iain MacKenzie swore
Loyalty to the Ninth ring. They could not interceed on its behalf (though they may have if they were allowed to), but they were more than willing to fight in order to win it back should it be lost... again, this is more Loyalty within Sport than Poltics). But to fight another person's battle when that person is healthy and more than capable of meeting the challenge himself or herself... that is what my original posting was all about.
My point, to reitterate once more, Politics are better left to other venues, Sport is what this Arena was built on and Sport is what this Arena should return to. If people continue looking at the Barons and Overlord as some political hierarchy, where change can't be made unless one goes through countless agencies and red tape is cut through, then we have truly lost our way.
Respectfully,
Nova Grey Shadow
Date: 21 Apr 1998 15:03:45 EDT
Var,
Thank you for taking the time to reply, but I do have to clear this up. I never stated the Arena was in any way black or white, it is not one way or the other, or rather, it should not be. As it stands, we are leaning more toward the black (to continue the analogy) than we are toward any other color, were black to symbolize heavy political ramblings. Personalities add the color of this sport (and we all know how personalities differ here), yet
it seems that many different personalities are melting together into the face of an overprotective fatherly figure where the Overlord must be beaten before a challenge to a Baron can commence and a Champion must be defeated before a challenge to said Overlord can go on (i.e. Politics). I in no way suggested that people could not act in whatever way they see fit, but I did suggest that they *should* not let others fight their battles for them.
I know and you know that each and every one of us is perfectly capable of dueling for ourselves. The Arena got along very well when no one could step in on anyone else's behalf and this in no way limited the compulsions of others. If a friend would like to duel in the name of another, he or she is perfectly welcome to take their fight to whomever their friend happens to lose to (as we saw when Moralitor the Black and Iain MacKenzie swore
Loyalty to the Ninth ring. They could not interceed on its behalf (though they may have if they were allowed to), but they were more than willing to fight in order to win it back should it be lost... again, this is more Loyalty within Sport than Poltics). But to fight another person's battle when that person is healthy and more than capable of meeting the challenge himself or herself... that is what my original posting was all about.
My point, to reitterate once more, Politics are better left to other venues, Sport is what this Arena was built on and Sport is what this Arena should return to. If people continue looking at the Barons and Overlord as some political hierarchy, where change can't be made unless one goes through countless agencies and red tape is cut through, then we have truly lost our way.
Respectfully,
Nova Grey Shadow
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 16:47:37 EDT
::He nods and writes::
Nova, I see your point, though I also see everyone's point. You did state your position very well.
After reading these postings, however, I (and I'm sure a few others) will have to think about what they want, and what they think is right. I do, however, think if one wants to let one fight a duel for them, it's their right. If they want to go through with letting someone duel for them, then it's their decision. That is one thing I will always stand by.
If one gets ridiculed for letting another duel for them, then it's their trial (Note, I am not saying it's wrong, but others may criticize).
±
"When you throw mud, your hands become dirty"
"There is only one way to achieve immortality; you must accomplish good, and let the memory of your goodness live forever, among others"
::Adds, after signing the paper, muttering::
What I do think is insulting, is when one publicly criticizes the DoS in general but fails to have the courage to name themselves.
±
"When you throw mud, your hands become dirty"
"There is only one way to achieve immortality; you must accomplish good, and let the memory of your goodness live forever, among others"
Date: 21 Apr 1998 16:47:37 EDT
::He nods and writes::
Nova, I see your point, though I also see everyone's point. You did state your position very well.
After reading these postings, however, I (and I'm sure a few others) will have to think about what they want, and what they think is right. I do, however, think if one wants to let one fight a duel for them, it's their right. If they want to go through with letting someone duel for them, then it's their decision. That is one thing I will always stand by.
If one gets ridiculed for letting another duel for them, then it's their trial (Note, I am not saying it's wrong, but others may criticize).
±
"When you throw mud, your hands become dirty"
"There is only one way to achieve immortality; you must accomplish good, and let the memory of your goodness live forever, among others"
::Adds, after signing the paper, muttering::
What I do think is insulting, is when one publicly criticizes the DoS in general but fails to have the courage to name themselves.
±
"When you throw mud, your hands become dirty"
"There is only one way to achieve immortality; you must accomplish good, and let the memory of your goodness live forever, among others"
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From: athlstan@aol.com (Athlstan)
Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:35:50 EDT
::the guardian stirs::
Schoolhouse report cards? I remember thusly, Nova Greyshadow...
5/11/96 - Athlstan def. RennorIII, 5-1 in rounds.
5/30/96 - Karnafexx def. WickedDeth, 5-1 in 11 rounds.
6/22/96 - Athlstan def. Ecore, 5-2 in 11 rounds.
8/4/96 - RedZealot def. Raiyko, 5-2.5 in 9 rounds.
10/12/96 - Alais dNS def. Athlstan, 5-3 in 8 rounds.
There was alos a challenge by JoKicklen, who failed to show up for the match.
In 6 duels, I used the Test but twice. Given the results in each case, I feel perfectly justified.
Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:35:50 EDT
::the guardian stirs::
Schoolhouse report cards? I remember thusly, Nova Greyshadow...
5/11/96 - Athlstan def. RennorIII, 5-1 in rounds.
5/30/96 - Karnafexx def. WickedDeth, 5-1 in 11 rounds.
6/22/96 - Athlstan def. Ecore, 5-2 in 11 rounds.
8/4/96 - RedZealot def. Raiyko, 5-2.5 in 9 rounds.
10/12/96 - Alais dNS def. Athlstan, 5-3 in 8 rounds.
There was alos a challenge by JoKicklen, who failed to show up for the match.
In 6 duels, I used the Test but twice. Given the results in each case, I feel perfectly justified.
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:12:20 EDT
>>Though I see your point, I want to say some things. Adonai paraphrased earlier, saying that you view the arena as "black and white". <<
I do believe I heard a saying once about viewing things as only "black and white".
"When one only looks at the black and white...one misses the rainbow in between"
The idea behind this, put in the terms of the DoS, is that it's the diversity that's one of the few things keeping the DoS together nowadays, in my opinion. The idea of "my way or the highway" is utterly useless. There are too many people in this sport for it to ever be one way.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands
Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:12:20 EDT
>>Though I see your point, I want to say some things. Adonai paraphrased earlier, saying that you view the arena as "black and white". <<
I do believe I heard a saying once about viewing things as only "black and white".
"When one only looks at the black and white...one misses the rainbow in between"
The idea behind this, put in the terms of the DoS, is that it's the diversity that's one of the few things keeping the DoS together nowadays, in my opinion. The idea of "my way or the highway" is utterly useless. There are too many people in this sport for it to ever be one way.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress@Arms
Journeywoman, TDL
Dracoern Highlands