A challenge that *is* my fault

[DoS Archive]

From: pkardinal@aol.com (PKardinal)
Date: 29 Jun 1998 13:21:41 EDT

::wanders up to the boards and tacks up a missive already sent to the Baron::

Patrons of the Duel of Swords,

This letter is to notify you of my challenge to Baron Money Blade for the right to where the 12th Ring of the Duel of Swords. I have once before served under Dalamar as the Baron of the 4th and I wish to serve under him again. It took me by surprise when I returned to see that there were four new Baronial rings here, along with four new Barons. Five different rings being offered is quite a prize for a tournament of Warlords. You, Roland,
were the last of the winner's in the last Warlord's Tournament and that is partially why I chose you. I wish to put your skill up against mine in a friendly battle, hoping that I will gain the right to where your ring. A challenge this will prove to be, as we have never before met in the ring. Like I said, I was a Baron once before and I wish to be so again. Every man has a will to be the best and some use that will to achieve it. I await your
response and the confirmation of my peer wins listed below. Good luck to you Roland.

~Sir Philip Kardinal III
Whew, haven't signed with that name in a *long* time :D



Peer wins:

DemCyrax I: 5-1 in 9 rounds, Jun 19. RDI Luth
DemCyrax I: 5-2 in 9 rounds, Jun 21. RDI Daemon
Gaejin: 5-3.5 in 9 rounds, Jun 20. RDI Bird
Xyclone: 5-2 in 7 rounds, Jun 20. RDI Rand
Takcouma: 5-2 in 7 rounds, Jun 21. RDI Fiona
Arathorn1: 6-5 in 11 rounds, Jun 25. RDI Fish
Rix Favre: 5-3 in 8 rounds, Jun 26. RDI Luth
Agrenish: 5-2 in 9 rounds, Jun 26. RDI Luth
Drakewyn I: 5-3 in 7 rounds, Jun 28. RDI Nevada
DevilHntrX: 5-1 in 7 rounds, Jun 28. RDI Daemon

[DoS Archive]

From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 29 Jun 1998 15:28:18 EDT

::Reads the post and writes::

I believe this challenge will be rendered invalid for two reasons:
1) there are two peers who are the same, when, to my understanding, they must be ten different peers.
2) the peer wins are only days old, and haven't been posted in the standings.

If, somehow the challenge is allowed to continue forth, I will wish Roland the best of luck. I in no way would hope someone wins, after they insult all the ladies and fathers of the DoS.
Roland, as said before; if the challenge is allowed to be pressed, show Phil what happens when the fathers who care deeply for their families, are insulted. I would proudly stand as a second, to defend this cause.

Respectfully,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud to put his family first¯|
|¯Unwavered loyalty to Dalamar¯|
|¯Holder of the 10th baronial ring¯|
|¯Attempting to defend what's right¯|

[DoS Archive]

From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 29 Jun 1998 16:33:52 EDT

::re-reads the challenge and notices Var is right::

Hmm, odd...maybe they might be able to forgive the peer wins, but the duplicate wins will knock it out for sure.

::shuffles back away, wondering what Var is talking about by "insult(ing) all the ladies and fathers of the DoS," but, being neither, decides something Phil said must have different meaning to those::

[DoS Archive]

From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 29 Jun 1998 17:09:56 EDT

I would suggest to Phil he recind challenge as soon as possible and resubmit when his list is corrected.

If he has more peer wins, he would be wise to submit dem asap.

~J

[DoS Archive]

From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 29 Jun 1998 18:32:52 EDT

::reads Jeff's post, rather amused at the advice, as when he tried that strategy people vilified him::

Oh well...He wasn't one of the ones who thought I was in the wrong...at least, he didn't say it. So, all in all, it's not a big deal to me.

::walks back away, not posting::

[DoS Archive]

From: pkardinal@aol.com (PKardinal)
Date: 29 Jun 1998 22:14:18 EDT

::is already aware of his error and has taken care of the matter::

[DoS Archive]

From: randaltan@aol.com (Rand alTan)
Date: 30 Jun 1998 23:07:48 EDT

::reading the boards, shakes his head a little, mutters to himself::

Why can't people let the officials officiate? If a challenge isn't valid, Helix an Golden will catch it.

::sighs, shrugs, and moves to the next post, whistling an old tune.... "Let It Be"::

[DoS Archive]

From: lyonxx@aol.com (Lyon xx)
Date: 02 Jul 1998 15:27:20 EDT


I have to agree with Rand. Why don't all the "rules lawyers" out there just keep silent unless asked. So far I've seen 3 challenges in the last month that could have been made invalid. I see barons as ambassadors to the sport, if a person can't even follow the proper protocol to make a challenge, then they don't deserve to be a baron. There are plenty of people out there that can be consulted as to the proper steps to take before you challenge.
People need to start looking before they leap and if they jump in they better know how to swim or start dealing with the consequences.

Lyon

[DoS Archive]

From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 02 Jul 1998 15:58:19 EDT

Bah...mine was over a month ago by now. ::grins::

Seriously, I'm sure you all think I'm unfit to comment on this matter, but the only thing I really have to say is that I find it ironic when someone posts saying he thinks the challenges should be invalidated, then goes and tells the people making the challenges that they goofed, so they can fix it. I mean, if you wanted the challenges to be invalidated, you shoulda been quiet about em.

Of course, someone's gonna say "well they told you so why are you saying something". Well, to be honest, I can't say I care if one person chooses to tell another about the mistake in his challenge. But I don't think you should tell him about the mistake, and then expect him not to fix it.

That's all. Have a nice day.

Zen

[DoS Archive]

From: pkardinal@aol.com (PKardinal)
Date: 02 Jul 1998 16:27:52 EDT

Lyon,

I have to say that you're quite outspoken. If you do not wish for others to speak out on whether a challenge is valid or not then they probably do not want your opinion on what they said. If you want other people to keep their mouth shut, then I suggest that you start by keeping your own shut. Not all of us are those who go by the book word for word and around here, the rule books change almost daily. If you think of me not worthy to be a
Baron, that's just fine. But try not to ridicule people whom you don't know because what goes around, comes around.

~Phil
Cool enough to sign with one name

[DoS Archive]

From: moneyblade@aol.com (MoneyBlade)
Date: 02 Jul 1998 17:19:05 EDT

Lyon,

Well said. Something I know many people believe, including myself. One isn't considered a good Baron or even a worthy Baron by his blade alone. Barons are the ones looked up apon, the ones asked the questions, the ones who set examples for the growing DoS community. Their actions today could effect the entire DoS in the future.
Personally, if I were in the warlords' shoes, I couldn't bring myself to continue on with the challenge. Not even with a mistake like that, knowingly or not. Its obvious that I wouldn't be a worthy Baron, not even taking the time to double check the rules. Though I'm not saying I would give up my quest for the title, I am merely saying that I would drop my hasty challenge... because at that moment, I'm truely not worthy to hold the
title. I'd rather bide the time untill I felt worthy, untill I could take on the proper responsibilites and respect the proper protocal. Anyway, I've rambled enough. Take care.


Roland

[DoS Archive]

From: lyonxx@aol.com (Lyon xx)
Date: 02 Jul 1998 21:23:00 EDT


Alright, I had hoped this wouldn't turn into more than it should, but I'm always game. Zen you wrote:
"Seriously, I'm sure you all think I'm unfit to comment on this matter, but the only thing I really have to say is that I find it ironic when someone posts saying he thinks the challenges should be invalidated, then goes and tells the people making the challenges that they goofed, so they can fix it. I mean, if you wanted the challenges to be invalidated, you shoulda been quiet about em."

If this in any way refers to me, you are mistaken for I do not recall telling anyone they goofed so they could fix it. I spoke out against your challenge, but so you could fix it. I firmly believe in individual responsibility. I don't care if it was an innocent mistake, you still live with the consequences of the action.

And now to you Phil. You wrote:
"If you want other people to keep their mouth shut, then I suggest that you start by keeping your own shut."

I didn't put it in those terms, but if you want to get crude about it then lets do it.

You're damn right I don't think you're deserving to be a baron. I don't think anyone is that can't challenge properly. To not be able to do so by the guide lines speaks volumes about the person making the challenge. I think its highly disrespectful to the "position" of baron when a challenge is made carelessly.

Lets not use ignorance as an excuse either. Like I said prior, there are a great number of people around here that will be more than happy to assist someone in a challenge, all you have to do is ask them. If you don't care enough to show enough respect to the position of baron and the person wearing the ring, then you don't deserve it. Period. I sure as hell hope Dal steps up and slams the door on this type of garbage.

Lyon

[DoS Archive]

From: pkardinal@aol.com (PKardinal)
Date: 02 Jul 1998 22:04:36 EDT

::smiles, reading over Lyon's post and responds::

Lyon,

Calm down. No need for the vulgar language. Now, I have been a Baron before and know exactly what it takes to fullfill the "position", as you call it. But it is more than a position. Like Roland said, a Baron is one who is looked up to for guidance and sets examples in the growing community of the DoS. Now, if you weren't aware, they too are allowed to make mistakes just like everyone else. I have been back for two weeks from a five month
break. Are you saying that it is wrong to think that the challenge rules would stay the same? Well, your answer is probably yes. And you're probably right. Now I have already admitted that I made an error when I challenged by not rereading the rules since I returned. But the way I see it, you should always allow someone to correct their mistakes no matter how big or small. A person is not "unfit" for the Barony simply for the petty reason that
he forgot to read. No, a person unfit for Baron is one who belittles others by putting them down for something they did wrong. Or some who cannot see the light of day in forgiveness. You obviously think different.

~Phil
The other white meat

[DoS Archive]

From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 02 Jul 1998 23:53:46 EDT

Lyon,

Actually I wasn't referring to you at all. But I've seen it done here by someone.

Zen

[DoS Archive]

From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 03 Jul 1998 06:44:32 EDT

Roland,

I'd bring up dat Phil has already carried da title Baron. He knows what he's in fer and he wants it again. He's no newbie and he's no fool. Maybe he made a mistake but da change in rules (Peer wins must be posted first ta be used) came whilest he was on a short vacation. Hold it against him if ya want, call him unworthy, unknowing if ya want, but den yer wrong at least in me opinion.

As fer da Overlord slammin' da door shut on dis type of garbage, well, I've believed barons should stand on deir own two feet, but I'm also not one ta meddle with Dal's business. Dal's a friend so I let it go, but Phil's a friend so maybe its time I didn't just let it go ::grins::

Phil, I wish ye da best of luck in yer challenge. Just send me a date and time and I'll be dere ta see it, and win or lose we'll sure have some fun.


~J
"Phil is so cool he only signs with one name, so I guess dat makes me da badest mo fo in DoS"