From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 07:17:16 EST
Below was mailed to the appropriate parties. This is for public reference, in case anyone is wondering what has gone on with this challenge.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
-----------------------------------------------------------
To the Respective Parties,
This missive is to inform you that I accept Lupton's challenge for the tenth baronial ring.
The details will be supplied once a time and date is established. At this point, I ask both the challenger (Lupton) and the chosen official (Stormcrow) that they send me what times work best for them for the challenge (along with what days).
Moreover, if Lupton has a chosen Lady of Honor or Second in mind, please inform me what times are best for them as well, so I can schedule accordingly for everyone to make it.
If a certain party does not send in what times work best for them, then I hope they will understand the fact that I tried to schedule as fairly as possible.
I thank you for your time.
Humbly,
Var Medici-Giovanni
----------------------------------------------------------------
Challenge Acceptance
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 07:22:05 EST
My reply to the Baron's letter.
___________________________________
As is my right per tradition as a challenger, I'm refusing the official suggested by the Baron Var. It is his choice of when and where, but I shall not forfeit my rights as a challenging Warlord.
Once I have chosen a referee, I shall inform those involved.
~Lupton est Dracoern
________________________________
As a side note, I have since procured the services of Miss Karen Jansen for the duel.
Date: 29 Dec 1998 07:22:05 EST
My reply to the Baron's letter.
___________________________________
As is my right per tradition as a challenger, I'm refusing the official suggested by the Baron Var. It is his choice of when and where, but I shall not forfeit my rights as a challenging Warlord.
Once I have chosen a referee, I shall inform those involved.
~Lupton est Dracoern
________________________________
As a side note, I have since procured the services of Miss Karen Jansen for the duel.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 13:45:35 EST
Warlord Lupton,
Thee hae nae rights ast a challenger save to present a proper challenge and to present thineself at the appointed hour, day and venue.
Tis nae ast thou statest "thine right by tradition" to choose an official. T'was but a mere "courtesy" offered unto honorable challengers. Considering the manner with which thee announced thine challenge ast well ast including a forfeiture ast one of thine bona fides, ast well ast thine attempt during thine last challenge to force upon the former Baroness, Topaz Eludes, your choice of an official, I for one, wouldst apprise the Baron, that he need
nae, in honor, accept thine choice unless he approves ast well.
Jona.
Date: 29 Dec 1998 13:45:35 EST
Warlord Lupton,
Thee hae nae rights ast a challenger save to present a proper challenge and to present thineself at the appointed hour, day and venue.
Tis nae ast thou statest "thine right by tradition" to choose an official. T'was but a mere "courtesy" offered unto honorable challengers. Considering the manner with which thee announced thine challenge ast well ast including a forfeiture ast one of thine bona fides, ast well ast thine attempt during thine last challenge to force upon the former Baroness, Topaz Eludes, your choice of an official, I for one, wouldst apprise the Baron, that he need
nae, in honor, accept thine choice unless he approves ast well.
Jona.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 15:46:19 EST
Lupton~~~
You still don't seem to have the right of it yet.
As a challenger you have no *rights* in a challenge, either per tradition or other. The choices are entirely up to Var as the challenged Baron. IF Var chooses to accept your request to have Karen as the official... it is HIS choice.
Khrys
Date: 29 Dec 1998 15:46:19 EST
Lupton~~~
You still don't seem to have the right of it yet.
As a challenger you have no *rights* in a challenge, either per tradition or other. The choices are entirely up to Var as the challenged Baron. IF Var chooses to accept your request to have Karen as the official... it is HIS choice.
Khrys
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:12:23 EST
Ye all are in error.
Perhaps even the Word Witch has forgotten this muddled tradition Dal aided in the destruction of. While the challenged does have the right to choose a place, time, and setting, the challenger has a single right to be sure, to obtain an official for the match.
Quite frankly, until either of ye have obtained the ability to challenge and have done so, your words seem rather shallow.
~Lupton est Dracoern
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:12:23 EST
Ye all are in error.
Perhaps even the Word Witch has forgotten this muddled tradition Dal aided in the destruction of. While the challenged does have the right to choose a place, time, and setting, the challenger has a single right to be sure, to obtain an official for the match.
Quite frankly, until either of ye have obtained the ability to challenge and have done so, your words seem rather shallow.
~Lupton est Dracoern
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xjaycyndax@aol.com (XJaycyndaX)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:13:24 EST
With valid reason, a challenger may refuse the selected caller and request another caller, which the challenged must agree on as well.
Should Lupton feel his reason is valid for requesting another caller, he should bring up the matter with the Supervisor, Golden.
-= Jaycy
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:13:24 EST
With valid reason, a challenger may refuse the selected caller and request another caller, which the challenged must agree on as well.
Should Lupton feel his reason is valid for requesting another caller, he should bring up the matter with the Supervisor, Golden.
-= Jaycy
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xxgillxx@aol.com (XxGillxX)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:21:14 EST
::his Gill's flutter as he skims over the posts. He comes up to this one and simply puts not knowing the man really, but remembers him from some nights ago.:: Go Lupton. Win it for the big one.
<~~~ Gill Bubble
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:21:14 EST
::his Gill's flutter as he skims over the posts. He comes up to this one and simply puts not knowing the man really, but remembers him from some nights ago.:: Go Lupton. Win it for the big one.
<~~~ Gill Bubble
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:30:19 EST
Lupton~~~
I know of no official ruling that says that the challenger has the right to his or her choice of officials. I stress the word official, because that is what we have to go by... the rules. I know not of this *tradition* (which is NOT an official ruling in the Sport, by the way) that you speak of... mayhaps it was before I came to RhyDin two years ago.
I do know that you have the *right* to refuse a caller if you can show good justification for your refusal of said caller to the Supervisor. But, I believe, that is the only *right* you as the challenger have. Anything else is given to you only by the Challenged Baron's ~~ in this case Var's ~~ good graces.
Should I be shown wrong, I will of course apologize for my err.... but it would take a note from Goldendust Evermeadow, the Supervisor himself, not merely more sentiment on *traditions* being placed on the boards by you or anyone else for that matter, for me to be shown in err as to what your *Rights* are.
Khrys
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:30:19 EST
Lupton~~~
I know of no official ruling that says that the challenger has the right to his or her choice of officials. I stress the word official, because that is what we have to go by... the rules. I know not of this *tradition* (which is NOT an official ruling in the Sport, by the way) that you speak of... mayhaps it was before I came to RhyDin two years ago.
I do know that you have the *right* to refuse a caller if you can show good justification for your refusal of said caller to the Supervisor. But, I believe, that is the only *right* you as the challenger have. Anything else is given to you only by the Challenged Baron's ~~ in this case Var's ~~ good graces.
Should I be shown wrong, I will of course apologize for my err.... but it would take a note from Goldendust Evermeadow, the Supervisor himself, not merely more sentiment on *traditions* being placed on the boards by you or anyone else for that matter, for me to be shown in err as to what your *Rights* are.
Khrys
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:43:59 EST
A few points...
First, it was tradition back when I was still a
beginner fer da challenger ta bring with him a caller. Not until recently has da challenged (ie Overlord or Baron) chosen da caller ta officiate da match. No where in da rules does it say either gets choice; however it was previously tradition dat da challenger gets choice. Rarely (I never saw or heard of it) was any caller's services denied or challenged as it is nowadays.
Secondly, no one needs a *good* reason not ta accept a chosen caller; Daegarth proved dis fact. He may have given Golden *ample* reason ta deny Dalamar's request of Lady Alais' services, however I doubt it was *good* reason by any standard measure.
In any case, new precidents have been set fer our sport, old traditions are gettin' lost, such is da way of it; however sad.
~J
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:43:59 EST
A few points...
First, it was tradition back when I was still a
beginner fer da challenger ta bring with him a caller. Not until recently has da challenged (ie Overlord or Baron) chosen da caller ta officiate da match. No where in da rules does it say either gets choice; however it was previously tradition dat da challenger gets choice. Rarely (I never saw or heard of it) was any caller's services denied or challenged as it is nowadays.
Secondly, no one needs a *good* reason not ta accept a chosen caller; Daegarth proved dis fact. He may have given Golden *ample* reason ta deny Dalamar's request of Lady Alais' services, however I doubt it was *good* reason by any standard measure.
In any case, new precidents have been set fer our sport, old traditions are gettin' lost, such is da way of it; however sad.
~J
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:51:03 EST
Your pardon, Jeff~~~
Mayhaps I should have stated *valid justification* rather than *good justification*... A poor choice of wording on my part...
Khrys
Date: 29 Dec 1998 16:51:03 EST
Your pardon, Jeff~~~
Mayhaps I should have stated *valid justification* rather than *good justification*... A poor choice of wording on my part...
Khrys
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 17:04:13 EST
As mailed to the council, and a few of the officials involved.
-------------------------
With the controversy sprung up, I feel I must ask a general question to the council.
This letter isn't to state whether or not I approve of Lupton's chosen official, but I question the effects behind Lupton's disapproval for mine. When I read the boards, there are those who mention the fact that the challenged cannot disapprove a caller without given reason.
I may just be forgetful, but I am questioning why Daegarth disapproved of Alais. Why did Dal have to compromise with Daegarth when it wasn't good reason? Or are the people who present the rules publicly incorrect?
Well, despite the problems I have with Dal (and the problems he has with me), I'd rather not get special benefits. If Dal couldn't have Alais call, then I think it would be fair if Stormcrow didn't call. This really annoys me, honestly, because I want him to call.
If I do not accept the given official by Lupton, am I accurate when I say that it will be settled the way Dalamar and Daegarth had to do it? Or is there a different alternative?
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
-------------------------------------
Date: 29 Dec 1998 17:04:13 EST
As mailed to the council, and a few of the officials involved.
-------------------------
With the controversy sprung up, I feel I must ask a general question to the council.
This letter isn't to state whether or not I approve of Lupton's chosen official, but I question the effects behind Lupton's disapproval for mine. When I read the boards, there are those who mention the fact that the challenged cannot disapprove a caller without given reason.
I may just be forgetful, but I am questioning why Daegarth disapproved of Alais. Why did Dal have to compromise with Daegarth when it wasn't good reason? Or are the people who present the rules publicly incorrect?
Well, despite the problems I have with Dal (and the problems he has with me), I'd rather not get special benefits. If Dal couldn't have Alais call, then I think it would be fair if Stormcrow didn't call. This really annoys me, honestly, because I want him to call.
If I do not accept the given official by Lupton, am I accurate when I say that it will be settled the way Dalamar and Daegarth had to do it? Or is there a different alternative?
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
-------------------------------------
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 17:14:35 EST
::reads the Baron's missive, determining to say not another word until Official Notification has been tendered::
Thank you, Var, for taking the time to do this. I know that if I am in err on this, I would like to know so that should this discussion rear up again I would be reliably informed.....
I would hope others would feel the same as well......
Khrys
Date: 29 Dec 1998 17:14:35 EST
::reads the Baron's missive, determining to say not another word until Official Notification has been tendered::
Thank you, Var, for taking the time to do this. I know that if I am in err on this, I would like to know so that should this discussion rear up again I would be reliably informed.....
I would hope others would feel the same as well......
Khrys
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 17:22:08 EST
Ta Var and da rest of DoS,
Nowadays it must be mutual consent between Challenger and Challenged as ta who will officiate.
No longer can challenging duelers bring good luck callers; nor could an Overlord or Baron request his/her favorite, "good luck", caller.
Shamefully, its time fer RDI Golden ta hammer out some rules as ta WHO chooses, because its really getting bad.
Callers don't decide who wins or who loses, but callers ARE an important part of da challenge match.
~J
Date: 29 Dec 1998 17:22:08 EST
Ta Var and da rest of DoS,
Nowadays it must be mutual consent between Challenger and Challenged as ta who will officiate.
No longer can challenging duelers bring good luck callers; nor could an Overlord or Baron request his/her favorite, "good luck", caller.
Shamefully, its time fer RDI Golden ta hammer out some rules as ta WHO chooses, because its really getting bad.
Callers don't decide who wins or who loses, but callers ARE an important part of da challenge match.
~J
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 18:22:41 EST
My Lords and Ladies of the Duel of Swords,
This is only my opinion, but was not Stormcrow the one that was supposed to call Var's last defense? Perhaps Lupton wants to have a caller he can count on to show for the match.
Colleen Lasher
Date: 29 Dec 1998 18:22:41 EST
My Lords and Ladies of the Duel of Swords,
This is only my opinion, but was not Stormcrow the one that was supposed to call Var's last defense? Perhaps Lupton wants to have a caller he can count on to show for the match.
Colleen Lasher
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 29 Dec 1998 21:46:30 EST
Members of the Community~
If Daegarth had the "right" (as challenger) to refuse Dalamar's choice of Alais as the official, then Lupton has the same "right" to refuse Var's choice of Stormcrow as the official. Simple as that. Daegarth was allowed to deny Alais the chance to officiate the match, so there is *no* reason why Lupton should be forced to use an official that he does not want.
~Sidartha
Date: 29 Dec 1998 21:46:30 EST
Members of the Community~
If Daegarth had the "right" (as challenger) to refuse Dalamar's choice of Alais as the official, then Lupton has the same "right" to refuse Var's choice of Stormcrow as the official. Simple as that. Daegarth was allowed to deny Alais the chance to officiate the match, so there is *no* reason why Lupton should be forced to use an official that he does not want.
~Sidartha