From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 19:54:10 EST
Caithness Keep,
Moorside,
Kingdom of New Caithness
30 January 522 CE
To all parties:
With the relinquishing of the title of Overlord by the peerless Dalamar Ar'Daumon, I am, at last, free of my imprisonment in realms beyond.
I return with one focus... the return of these environs to a place where honor rules above all. Where men are judged by their actions. Where people have the conviction to tell a friend they are wrong, rather than shuffling their feet and allowing those friends to sully the honor of the rings.
This new age will come to pass, even if force must be resorted to. Already, in the single day since my return, others band with me in this endeavour. The Amethyst Ring is reborn. No longer a mere excuse to reminisce about the old days, the Amethyst Ring will act. Titleholders who disgrace their station will be dealt with. Fools will not be tolerated. This community will, once again, learn to stand against those who seek to degrade it.
Those who wish to join in this struggle may be welcome. Those who oppose this mission do so at their peril.
Ian Rex.
Statement of Intent
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:01:44 EST
If you are accepting those half-between old and young, consider this Warlord to be among the reborn Amethyst Ring.
~ Lupton est Dracoern
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:01:44 EST
If you are accepting those half-between old and young, consider this Warlord to be among the reborn Amethyst Ring.
~ Lupton est Dracoern
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From: lorduziel@aol.com (Lord Uziel)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:02:52 EST
A fine idea.
If you deal with people with the mentality of sheep that need to be driven. Unfortunatly I believe you'll find that most here are more goatlike. As sheep must be driven....goats must be led.
Otherwise...I believe this will just engender further severance within the community.
Personally....I plan to be me. Hopefully this will coincide with this notion. If it does not...I am not going to concern myself about it overmuch.
In afterthought...welcome back to the realm Ian. I'm sure this is going to be fun.
I am,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of Rhydin
~Warlord and Once Baron of the Seventh
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:02:52 EST
A fine idea.
If you deal with people with the mentality of sheep that need to be driven. Unfortunatly I believe you'll find that most here are more goatlike. As sheep must be driven....goats must be led.
Otherwise...I believe this will just engender further severance within the community.
Personally....I plan to be me. Hopefully this will coincide with this notion. If it does not...I am not going to concern myself about it overmuch.
In afterthought...welcome back to the realm Ian. I'm sure this is going to be fun.
I am,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of Rhydin
~Warlord and Once Baron of the Seventh
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:12:09 EST
Hmph, i was hoping we could get somebody else to play Uzi's part, dang, now we gotta dwal with him. ::smirks and wanders off::
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:12:09 EST
Hmph, i was hoping we could get somebody else to play Uzi's part, dang, now we gotta dwal with him. ::smirks and wanders off::
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:27:46 EST
Oi..pardon me fer interfering an all...but..dis sounds like a hostage situation..in all fact, when reading it, it seems, quite, funny...but noble purpose, though, if ye glance, respect is present, and people are being themselves.
Wot is specifically the problem?
Not bashing in anyway,
Coron
Healer Practice-
Contact-13 Locke Dell, Rhydin-
Date: 30 Jan 1999 21:27:46 EST
Oi..pardon me fer interfering an all...but..dis sounds like a hostage situation..in all fact, when reading it, it seems, quite, funny...but noble purpose, though, if ye glance, respect is present, and people are being themselves.
Wot is specifically the problem?
Not bashing in anyway,
Coron
Healer Practice-
Contact-13 Locke Dell, Rhydin-
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From: ixdaelinxi@aol.com (IXDaelinXI)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 22:36:22 EST
>Where men are judged by their actions.
>This new age will come to pass, even if force must be resorted to.
>No longer a mere excuse to reminisce about the old days, the Amethyst Ring
>will act. Titleholders who disgrace their station will be dealt with.
>Fools will not be tolerated.
>Those who oppose this mission do so at their peril.
Now correct me if I'm wrong. But none of those statements..(Which are the bulk of the missive I may add) Sound like they will help bring the "environs to a place where honor rules above all"...why can't we be judged by our hearts? And why do we have to be judged at all? You guys can't bridle anyones spirits in the sport..even with "force"..This will not sit well with any of the bad boys of the sport, including Agrenish..if he comes back..and Jesse
Troyan. You guys plan to pick off any Barons of Overlords you deem unfit? How are you going to bring honor back if you guys are the one dictating what constitutes honor? People make mistakes, no one should persecute anyone for making a mistake..::pauses and grins:: I suppose now I'm #1 on the "Hit List", no?
::Scrawled in blazing blue ink::
~Daelin Dragonsblade~
~Baron of the Seventh~
~Regent King of Dragonia~
~Member of House Dragoon-Talanador~
Date: 30 Jan 1999 22:36:22 EST
>Where men are judged by their actions.
>This new age will come to pass, even if force must be resorted to.
>No longer a mere excuse to reminisce about the old days, the Amethyst Ring
>will act. Titleholders who disgrace their station will be dealt with.
>Fools will not be tolerated.
>Those who oppose this mission do so at their peril.
Now correct me if I'm wrong. But none of those statements..(Which are the bulk of the missive I may add) Sound like they will help bring the "environs to a place where honor rules above all"...why can't we be judged by our hearts? And why do we have to be judged at all? You guys can't bridle anyones spirits in the sport..even with "force"..This will not sit well with any of the bad boys of the sport, including Agrenish..if he comes back..and Jesse
Troyan. You guys plan to pick off any Barons of Overlords you deem unfit? How are you going to bring honor back if you guys are the one dictating what constitutes honor? People make mistakes, no one should persecute anyone for making a mistake..::pauses and grins:: I suppose now I'm #1 on the "Hit List", no?
::Scrawled in blazing blue ink::
~Daelin Dragonsblade~
~Baron of the Seventh~
~Regent King of Dragonia~
~Member of House Dragoon-Talanador~
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From: jessetroyn@aol.com (JesseTroyn)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 22:53:59 EST
::swaggers up to the boards, grinning smugly as he reads the letter... snickers, taking a drag off his cig and then replying::
Nice to see you found your head again, sucker. Shame your mind didn't come back with it. You can take your past and your precious little ego trip and shove it. Cause a tired old has-been like you and the fools dumb enough to band with him won't be able to force a thing. Maybe you should stick to writing scathing letters, since I doubt you'll ever accomplish much else in your pathetic little struggle. Of course, once I have a title, I'll be expecting
your sorry self or one of your little followers to come for me. Good. I can't wait to kick all of your teeth in. Have a nice day, loser.
-JT
Date: 30 Jan 1999 22:53:59 EST
::swaggers up to the boards, grinning smugly as he reads the letter... snickers, taking a drag off his cig and then replying::
Nice to see you found your head again, sucker. Shame your mind didn't come back with it. You can take your past and your precious little ego trip and shove it. Cause a tired old has-been like you and the fools dumb enough to band with him won't be able to force a thing. Maybe you should stick to writing scathing letters, since I doubt you'll ever accomplish much else in your pathetic little struggle. Of course, once I have a title, I'll be expecting
your sorry self or one of your little followers to come for me. Good. I can't wait to kick all of your teeth in. Have a nice day, loser.
-JT
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From: waikrboh@aol.com (WaIkrBoh)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 23:53:09 EST
I would welcome any party that would seek to put into place one thing that has been missing in this arena for a very long time:
Logical thinking on the part of the patrons.
Perhaps I am guilty of this myself, but it seems that people attempt to convince others around here by saying the other person is wrong, and attacking their beliefs. If life has tought me one thing, it is that values and beliefs are hard pressed to change. Sometimes, even if logic dictates otherwise.
So why do I proclaim for this logic? Because it is the only way possible to ever convince someone civily. You can threaten and insult all you want, but you will never change the way a person thinks. And, besides skill, that is truly what matters, correct? Every person you convince not to challenge you is a defense that must not be fought. Every person you insult and threaten is a person ready to challenge you when you get a title. Every person
that you show the error of their ways to in a logical, civilized manner will respect you that much more.
We all hold different beliefs around here. Many people think that those like Jesse and Agrenish are unfit to hold rings. They have ther reasons, but those reasons lie in the fuzzy region of honor and duty, not in logic. Do not think that I do not care for honor, but it must be recognized that the possibility arises that there exist others who do not. The area is beyond that of perfect comprehension.
So a group that wants to remove from the titles those that they deem unworthy. That's nice. I'll give you a big "E" for effort, but I highly doubt you will convince enough of the people that what you are doing is "right". Determination of honor comes from within, not from others. If you wish to force your honor onto someone else, you certainly have the "right" to do it, but they have just as much right to reject it. In order to decide who is
right for the time being, they fight, and one wins. It is a belief of mine that the preceding is the true nature of the system. Fighting over whose morals are correct. It is the only way possible. Please note this does not exclude matches fought for "sport" or the like, but characterizes grudge matches or the like.
Therefore, it is my belief that the system is hated, and bickering about it occurs, because the system itself is not understood in the least. Once a common understanding is reached why we go through all this trouble, perhaps we can get past the bickering and actually fight, the way it was meant to be done.
The problem with my idealized view, is two fold. The first is the stubborness of people. Systems of belief shown to have heavily flawed logic are held onto. The second is the lack of perfect intelligence. Without the knowledge and logical reasoning skills of others, those of lower intelligence are forced to resort to insults and threats. Any large parliamentary system with wisely elected representatives does not fall into the chaos that
characterizes the DoS. But we are forced to accept those with the greatest skill as leaders, as well as have a completely democratic system where even the uneducated can particpate.
Can DoS be saved from what it has become by a change in leadership? Without a fully corresponding swing in the attitudes and receptability of the community, it cannot. The Amethyst "group", in my mind, can do nothing but add to the problem they allegedly are trying to solve.
Any constructive comments are welcome. All destructive comments are not.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
Date: 30 Jan 1999 23:53:09 EST
I would welcome any party that would seek to put into place one thing that has been missing in this arena for a very long time:
Logical thinking on the part of the patrons.
Perhaps I am guilty of this myself, but it seems that people attempt to convince others around here by saying the other person is wrong, and attacking their beliefs. If life has tought me one thing, it is that values and beliefs are hard pressed to change. Sometimes, even if logic dictates otherwise.
So why do I proclaim for this logic? Because it is the only way possible to ever convince someone civily. You can threaten and insult all you want, but you will never change the way a person thinks. And, besides skill, that is truly what matters, correct? Every person you convince not to challenge you is a defense that must not be fought. Every person you insult and threaten is a person ready to challenge you when you get a title. Every person
that you show the error of their ways to in a logical, civilized manner will respect you that much more.
We all hold different beliefs around here. Many people think that those like Jesse and Agrenish are unfit to hold rings. They have ther reasons, but those reasons lie in the fuzzy region of honor and duty, not in logic. Do not think that I do not care for honor, but it must be recognized that the possibility arises that there exist others who do not. The area is beyond that of perfect comprehension.
So a group that wants to remove from the titles those that they deem unworthy. That's nice. I'll give you a big "E" for effort, but I highly doubt you will convince enough of the people that what you are doing is "right". Determination of honor comes from within, not from others. If you wish to force your honor onto someone else, you certainly have the "right" to do it, but they have just as much right to reject it. In order to decide who is
right for the time being, they fight, and one wins. It is a belief of mine that the preceding is the true nature of the system. Fighting over whose morals are correct. It is the only way possible. Please note this does not exclude matches fought for "sport" or the like, but characterizes grudge matches or the like.
Therefore, it is my belief that the system is hated, and bickering about it occurs, because the system itself is not understood in the least. Once a common understanding is reached why we go through all this trouble, perhaps we can get past the bickering and actually fight, the way it was meant to be done.
The problem with my idealized view, is two fold. The first is the stubborness of people. Systems of belief shown to have heavily flawed logic are held onto. The second is the lack of perfect intelligence. Without the knowledge and logical reasoning skills of others, those of lower intelligence are forced to resort to insults and threats. Any large parliamentary system with wisely elected representatives does not fall into the chaos that
characterizes the DoS. But we are forced to accept those with the greatest skill as leaders, as well as have a completely democratic system where even the uneducated can particpate.
Can DoS be saved from what it has become by a change in leadership? Without a fully corresponding swing in the attitudes and receptability of the community, it cannot. The Amethyst "group", in my mind, can do nothing but add to the problem they allegedly are trying to solve.
Any constructive comments are welcome. All destructive comments are not.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 31 Jan 1999 00:04:49 EST
I will reply in general.
Disagreement is nature. The concept of worthiness has nothing to do with whether people disagree.
The Amethyst Ring will not seek to act against those simply for having opinions. It will act against those who stain the honor of the titles they hold. It is that simple.
The meaning of force, in this issue, is that those who impugn the integrity of the titles they hold will not sit idly by in peace, holding onto those titles because of politics and friendship. They will face challenge, as rapidly as can be arranged, and as often.
This, in the words of the departed Overlord, is called "doing something about it," rather than simply complaining. Words will be scarce. Actions will not. Those who act in reasonable manner, with honor and dignity, will know our support. Those who do not will know our vengeance.
The community, while claiming to wish respect, honor, and peace, has consistently been slow to punish those who spit on those ideals. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps this is not, after all, what the community wishes. We will soon find out.
Ian Rex.
Date: 31 Jan 1999 00:04:49 EST
I will reply in general.
Disagreement is nature. The concept of worthiness has nothing to do with whether people disagree.
The Amethyst Ring will not seek to act against those simply for having opinions. It will act against those who stain the honor of the titles they hold. It is that simple.
The meaning of force, in this issue, is that those who impugn the integrity of the titles they hold will not sit idly by in peace, holding onto those titles because of politics and friendship. They will face challenge, as rapidly as can be arranged, and as often.
This, in the words of the departed Overlord, is called "doing something about it," rather than simply complaining. Words will be scarce. Actions will not. Those who act in reasonable manner, with honor and dignity, will know our support. Those who do not will know our vengeance.
The community, while claiming to wish respect, honor, and peace, has consistently been slow to punish those who spit on those ideals. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps this is not, after all, what the community wishes. We will soon find out.
Ian Rex.
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From: ducpercy@aol.com (DucPercy)
Date: 31 Jan 1999 01:17:05 EST
>>The community, while claiming to wish respect, honor, and peace, has consistently been slow to punish those who spit on those ideals. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps this is not, after all, what the community wishes. We will soon find out.<<
Ian,
I think that the community, as a whole, has yet to reach a consensus on what is honorable and what is not. Many people, including myself, see honor as black and white, fairly rigid and defined, and not terribly flexible. However, even among those with a highly developed code of honor there is disagreement as to what constitutes honorable behavior. Var, who thinks very strongly of his own code of honor, thought it dishonorable to answer Drake's
questions under threat of challenge. That to answer those questions under those circumstances would be cowardice. Others thought Var dishonorable because he did not answer those same questions. No one really agreed on the honorable thing to do.
I think the Amethyst Ring to be a worthy organization with laudable goals. But it seems to me that you would do better to serve as an example of honor than to enforce your group's code of honor. At best you will fail because others will champion their own codes. At worst you will arouse many who disagree amongst themselves into banding together against what they see as a threat. It seems that, worthy or not, the Ring is in for some hard times.
I would, however, be interested in hearing what constitutes honorable and dishonorable behavior in a title holder from the official point of view of the Amethyst Ring. I have my own ideas along these lines, of course, and would be very interested in seeing or hearing yours. I am closely watching to see how the various leaders and factions of the Arena take shape since the changing of the guard, and I find the Ring itself of interest. I am very
curious as to the nature of the code of honor it is planning to enforce. If desired, I will share mine as well. Such exchanges of ideas are generally positive if discussion and debate is civil.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Warlord of the Duel of Swords
Member of House Dragoon-Talanador
Date: 31 Jan 1999 01:17:05 EST
>>The community, while claiming to wish respect, honor, and peace, has consistently been slow to punish those who spit on those ideals. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps this is not, after all, what the community wishes. We will soon find out.<<
Ian,
I think that the community, as a whole, has yet to reach a consensus on what is honorable and what is not. Many people, including myself, see honor as black and white, fairly rigid and defined, and not terribly flexible. However, even among those with a highly developed code of honor there is disagreement as to what constitutes honorable behavior. Var, who thinks very strongly of his own code of honor, thought it dishonorable to answer Drake's
questions under threat of challenge. That to answer those questions under those circumstances would be cowardice. Others thought Var dishonorable because he did not answer those same questions. No one really agreed on the honorable thing to do.
I think the Amethyst Ring to be a worthy organization with laudable goals. But it seems to me that you would do better to serve as an example of honor than to enforce your group's code of honor. At best you will fail because others will champion their own codes. At worst you will arouse many who disagree amongst themselves into banding together against what they see as a threat. It seems that, worthy or not, the Ring is in for some hard times.
I would, however, be interested in hearing what constitutes honorable and dishonorable behavior in a title holder from the official point of view of the Amethyst Ring. I have my own ideas along these lines, of course, and would be very interested in seeing or hearing yours. I am closely watching to see how the various leaders and factions of the Arena take shape since the changing of the guard, and I find the Ring itself of interest. I am very
curious as to the nature of the code of honor it is planning to enforce. If desired, I will share mine as well. Such exchanges of ideas are generally positive if discussion and debate is civil.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Warlord of the Duel of Swords
Member of House Dragoon-Talanador
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From: lorduziel@aol.com (Lord Uziel)
Date: 31 Jan 1999 04:34:43 EST
While I appreciate the restatement.
Your opinion of spitting on ideals and mine and the next persons are probably highly different Mackenzie. In fact...they always have been.
So needless to say....I am watching this very carefully. Because on other planets there were those that would seek to judge others by their creeds, or races, or actions. And force a code of purity from their point of view. Those people we're called tyrants, or for lack of a better word...evil despots.
Needless to say.....I shall watch and wait. Casting judgement upon something that might very well be a noble idea besides its grim trappings would be fairly unchivalrous of me to say the least.
I am,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of Rhydin
~Warlord and Once Baron of the Seventh
Date: 31 Jan 1999 04:34:43 EST
While I appreciate the restatement.
Your opinion of spitting on ideals and mine and the next persons are probably highly different Mackenzie. In fact...they always have been.
So needless to say....I am watching this very carefully. Because on other planets there were those that would seek to judge others by their creeds, or races, or actions. And force a code of purity from their point of view. Those people we're called tyrants, or for lack of a better word...evil despots.
Needless to say.....I shall watch and wait. Casting judgement upon something that might very well be a noble idea besides its grim trappings would be fairly unchivalrous of me to say the least.
I am,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of Rhydin
~Warlord and Once Baron of the Seventh
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 31 Jan 1999 07:44:02 EST
I have but one thing to say on this matter.
I have my task, and no other shall enter my thoughts or sway my actions until this task is done...
But then, you knew that already, didn't you Ian?
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 31 Jan 1999 07:44:02 EST
I have but one thing to say on this matter.
I have my task, and no other shall enter my thoughts or sway my actions until this task is done...
But then, you knew that already, didn't you Ian?
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 31 Jan 1999 11:50:22 EST
::had thought others had already tried to restore "honor" to the rings already::
Ian,
Although I have never seen you before, welcome back. But, there is something I must say about your missive.
You gathered all of this dishonor in one day? And, how do you plan to change all of this? You can take a person's title, but that will not change their opinion any. Only one's self can change their mind and such. Personally, I do not like the idea of living under force. This is a sport, should be fun, not fearful.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 31 Jan 1999 11:50:22 EST
::had thought others had already tried to restore "honor" to the rings already::
Ian,
Although I have never seen you before, welcome back. But, there is something I must say about your missive.
You gathered all of this dishonor in one day? And, how do you plan to change all of this? You can take a person's title, but that will not change their opinion any. Only one's self can change their mind and such. Personally, I do not like the idea of living under force. This is a sport, should be fun, not fearful.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
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From: sirbeiver@aol.com (Sir Beiver)
Date: 31 Jan 1999 13:41:13 EST
::laughing so hard at all the fools he gets a stich in his side, apon collapsing into a helpless laughing state of mind::
::absently lopes of the Captains head:: Brothers, let us pray for his soul.
Date: 31 Jan 1999 13:41:13 EST
::laughing so hard at all the fools he gets a stich in his side, apon collapsing into a helpless laughing state of mind::
::absently lopes of the Captains head:: Brothers, let us pray for his soul.
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From: sircassius@aol.com (SirCassius)
Date: 31 Jan 1999 13:44:12 EST
I'm just going to remind everyone that Duel of Swords is a SPORT, not a KINGDOM. What's my point? What the HELL does it matter who's a baron, who's overlord, whos a commoner, what the HELL does it matter if someone's being a fecicious little ass? Its a sport. A game. A test of skill. The overlord, the baronds, the warlords, none of them have any form of control that really matters. What can they do? Change the
rules of the sport a little? OH WELL! We'll survive. Any group that is bent on "dealing" with whom they think is unworthy to hold a title in a SPORT is pretty pathetic. I dont know anything about this amethyst ring, nor do I know anything of Ian (other than he was an excellent duelist, but isnt that all I really need to know?). Come on people. Its a sport.
::left unsigned. so as not to be blackballed by anyone, to avoid conflict if you will::
Date: 31 Jan 1999 13:44:12 EST
I'm just going to remind everyone that Duel of Swords is a SPORT, not a KINGDOM. What's my point? What the HELL does it matter who's a baron, who's overlord, whos a commoner, what the HELL does it matter if someone's being a fecicious little ass? Its a sport. A game. A test of skill. The overlord, the baronds, the warlords, none of them have any form of control that really matters. What can they do? Change the
rules of the sport a little? OH WELL! We'll survive. Any group that is bent on "dealing" with whom they think is unworthy to hold a title in a SPORT is pretty pathetic. I dont know anything about this amethyst ring, nor do I know anything of Ian (other than he was an excellent duelist, but isnt that all I really need to know?). Come on people. Its a sport.
::left unsigned. so as not to be blackballed by anyone, to avoid conflict if you will::