From: foxxgrrl@aol.com (Foxxgrrl)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 01:35:10 EDT
A good friend of mine just had a ring stolen from him, in a tragedy that should make all of you lose sleep tonight. Right now I am left considering how oddly appropriate it is that on these very corkboards there is a discussion, once again, of what makes a good Baron. This discussion was started by the then-newest Baron on the block, but the despicable thief
who stole the ring of an honorable man has commented there as well. Let's examine what he said, shall we?
To Be A Baron...
To be a baron to myself is to be of enlightening.
From the first sentence, this challenger's words are obscure and confusing. "To be a baron to myself is to be of enlightening." Enlightening what? And clearly this opinion is held by the author of the post, so there is no reason to add the "to myself." No one thinks the challenger is speaking for the community; if any pour soul does, I hope and
pray for him.
It is to enhance a community. Being a baron is not just a name but a job.
These are accepted as rather standard definitions of a good Baron. Nothing particularly wonderful or innovative here, so we'll continue.
It stands for a certain amount of worth in my mind.
Again, as Mr. Starke forces his opinion on us, he reminds us that it is his opinion - a gesture that is surely appreciated by some of the slower-minded members of this community (i.e., Mr. Starke's supporters).
If you are not worth it, you are to be challenged to meet your arrival in the rings to test your worth. You are seen as one of 13. The one that picks you is the one that seems to describe you as an unnecessary baron, a baron that should be a warlord, a baron of no worth. Yes,
to Lupton this may seem offending. But to challenge is to think you can do a better job. To be able to better the community with the little power you have. Whether it is how good a role model you are or how loyal you are to the sport, being a baron is not for cretins.
An interesting twist to the post is seen in this passage. Mr. Starke continues with the painfully ungrammatical and nonsensical statements ("you are to be challenged to meet your arrival in the rings to test your worth"?) yet manages to imply that it is Lupton's fault for taking offense when he is called a cretin and a "baron of no worth." A truly
admirable passing of the buck. My hat is off to the obviously superior rhetorical skills of Mr. Starke. Really.
And then you think, whom are the cretins? When you look at Agrenish, what do you think? This is what you -could- do when you stare at a baron's council. The crown. You think about if that guy can do as good of a job as you can. Can he actually better the community? Can Agrenish actually do anything for us rather for himself? No. Though, I could be wrong, but I am stern upon that no.
Nothing particularly revolutionary here, either. Mr. Starke just repeats his earlier patterns of comments so nonsensical they make my head spin, as well as arrogant dismissals of members of our community. Surely the type of title holder I want to see.
Though I talk upon these ranks as if they are the wonders for the community, people to look up to, but then I always fall back to my conclusion. It's just a title and a ring. Passed on to the next person that comes along. Whether baron or baroness, it's a title that should be held with a head up high and a smile across your face. Have fun with that ring.
This close to the end of the odd soapbox sermon, it is nice to see a new theme of complete and total hypocrisy introduced (as well as the earlier ones maintained... definite points are due to Mr. Starke for his consistently muddled thoughts). Perhaps, Mr. Starke, you can clarify how "being a baron is not just a name but a job," yet "it's just a
title and a ring." I look forward to further bursts of inanity.
This, members of the community, is the new holder of the sixth ring. I hope you're happy.
Sincerely,
Ally St.-Reynolds
You should all retire.
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:22:32 EDT
Well, to start this thing off...
Isn't it true that you are Rix's wife? If this is so, isn't it true that Rix was taught by Lupton? Lupton being his mentor of course (For the slow minded). Adding to this, aren't I right that you are prejudiced? Lupton is on your TDL team as well. Seems you'd be cheering for him.
After reading over your comedy I found you to make petty remarks upon grammar. Real smooth you are. Very.
You then pursue to find nimble ways to insult me beside grammar. And clearly this opinion is held by the author of the post, so there is no reason to add the "to myself." Then you go on to to try and make me a fool by a statement. Clarifying that sentence, I wrote myself to
ensure that it was only my opinion.
You stated "It is to enhance a community. Being a baron is not just a name but a job" was a standard definition of a baron. I only recall wanting to be a standard baron.
"Mr. Starke forces his opinion on us" Var asked for opinions so I certainly gave them. I never forced them. If you thought I did, you misinterpreted.
"a gesture that is surely appreciated by some of the slower-minded members of this community (i.e., Mr. Starke's supporters)." This really shows how prejudice you are. Simply because I had people on my side you called them slower minded. What if the thought was considered for
yourself as well?
"yet manages to imply that it is Lupton's fault for taking offense when he is called a cretin and a "baron of no worth." -- (Read this then)" Yes,
to Lupton this may seem offending. But to challenge is to think you can do a better job." I knew it was offending, but never stated it his fault. Twisting my words it seems.
"My hat is off to the obviously superior rhetorical skills of Mr. Starke." Another insult thrown my way in sarcasm. Trying to bend the minds of certain people in the community. I overheard you before the challenge match stating that all the faceless beings were on my side. Smooth.
To sum of the rest, you do the samething over and over again trying to ruin the small reputation I have developed. I'm not very popular among this place and you try to further me into that hole. How distasteful it is to even read your writings of disgust upon me holding a ring. If it is anyone, Lupton should have wrote this for himself besides a friend. Obviously you apparently think for him.
~ Drey Starke FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">~
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:22:32 EDT
Well, to start this thing off...
Isn't it true that you are Rix's wife? If this is so, isn't it true that Rix was taught by Lupton? Lupton being his mentor of course (For the slow minded). Adding to this, aren't I right that you are prejudiced? Lupton is on your TDL team as well. Seems you'd be cheering for him.
After reading over your comedy I found you to make petty remarks upon grammar. Real smooth you are. Very.
You then pursue to find nimble ways to insult me beside grammar. And clearly this opinion is held by the author of the post, so there is no reason to add the "to myself." Then you go on to to try and make me a fool by a statement. Clarifying that sentence, I wrote myself to
ensure that it was only my opinion.
You stated "It is to enhance a community. Being a baron is not just a name but a job" was a standard definition of a baron. I only recall wanting to be a standard baron.
"Mr. Starke forces his opinion on us" Var asked for opinions so I certainly gave them. I never forced them. If you thought I did, you misinterpreted.
"a gesture that is surely appreciated by some of the slower-minded members of this community (i.e., Mr. Starke's supporters)." This really shows how prejudice you are. Simply because I had people on my side you called them slower minded. What if the thought was considered for
yourself as well?
"yet manages to imply that it is Lupton's fault for taking offense when he is called a cretin and a "baron of no worth." -- (Read this then)" Yes,
to Lupton this may seem offending. But to challenge is to think you can do a better job." I knew it was offending, but never stated it his fault. Twisting my words it seems.
"My hat is off to the obviously superior rhetorical skills of Mr. Starke." Another insult thrown my way in sarcasm. Trying to bend the minds of certain people in the community. I overheard you before the challenge match stating that all the faceless beings were on my side. Smooth.
To sum of the rest, you do the samething over and over again trying to ruin the small reputation I have developed. I'm not very popular among this place and you try to further me into that hole. How distasteful it is to even read your writings of disgust upon me holding a ring. If it is anyone, Lupton should have wrote this for himself besides a friend. Obviously you apparently think for him.
~ Drey Starke FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">~
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:24:21 EDT
>A good friend of mine just had a ring stolen from him, in a tragedy that
>should make all of you lose sleep tonight.
You critique Drey's choice of wording in his post when you said just now the ring was stolen from Lupton? Was it not witnessed by Poison that Drey won the ring, or are those mischievous scribes running around again, posting fake results?
But because you seem so inclined as to attack Drey's grammar, a very disappointing and usually desperate argument, maybe I can insert the punctuation for you and have it more clear on paper. While I am sure Drey could do this himself, I have a hard time holding back my pen when I have something to say.
To be a baron, to myself, is to be of enlightening.
From my reading here (and inserting punctuation since you seem to demand such), it looks to me that according to Drey's point of view, he feels that a baron must be able to teach the community, and to set examples; to enlighten them.
It is to enhance a community. Being a baron is not just a name but a job.
Saying that nothing is wonderful or innovative, in my opinion, is your way of saying, "You're right, but because you beat Lupton, you're wrong."
It stands for a certain amount of worth in my mind.
You say that he is forcing his opinion on "us" when he clearly says at the end "in my mind."
a gesture that is surely appreciated by some of the slower-minded members of
this community (i.e., Mr. Starke's supporters).
I've seen other children say similar things: "If they're his friend, then they're my enemy." I remember a few months ago when someone even said that they don't respect me because I respect Jona. I have no regrets thinking Jona to be a friend of mine, and after this rather childish comment, I now have written proof that I won't ever regret thinking that Drey is a friend of mine.
You seem so offended when Drey is honest by saying he feels he can do a better job as a baron than Lupton. You also seem ticked that Drey wants to test Lupton's worth. Would you feel better if Drey said he challenged Lupton because he feels he is a worthy baron? You'd call him a backstabber to the community then, by removing someone whom he knows is a good baron.
as well as arrogant dismissals of members of our community. Surely the type
of title holder I want to see.
If you're not happy by Drey's words here, then you should be glad Lupton isn't a baron either. Didn't he retire a month or two ago, because he blew a 4-0 lead to Gaius Maximus? He said in his retirement that Cas is "the most annoying baron of DoS." Surely, then, you don't want Lupton to be a representative of the community, either.
On a side note regarding the above retirement, Lupton returned the next week after writing his alleged retirement.
This, members of the community, is the new holder of the sixth ring. I hope you're happy.
Very much so. Drey has a good head on his shoulders and can use proper judgement when it is called to him.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:24:21 EDT
>A good friend of mine just had a ring stolen from him, in a tragedy that
>should make all of you lose sleep tonight.
You critique Drey's choice of wording in his post when you said just now the ring was stolen from Lupton? Was it not witnessed by Poison that Drey won the ring, or are those mischievous scribes running around again, posting fake results?
But because you seem so inclined as to attack Drey's grammar, a very disappointing and usually desperate argument, maybe I can insert the punctuation for you and have it more clear on paper. While I am sure Drey could do this himself, I have a hard time holding back my pen when I have something to say.
To be a baron, to myself, is to be of enlightening.
From my reading here (and inserting punctuation since you seem to demand such), it looks to me that according to Drey's point of view, he feels that a baron must be able to teach the community, and to set examples; to enlighten them.
It is to enhance a community. Being a baron is not just a name but a job.
Saying that nothing is wonderful or innovative, in my opinion, is your way of saying, "You're right, but because you beat Lupton, you're wrong."
It stands for a certain amount of worth in my mind.
You say that he is forcing his opinion on "us" when he clearly says at the end "in my mind."
a gesture that is surely appreciated by some of the slower-minded members of
this community (i.e., Mr. Starke's supporters).
I've seen other children say similar things: "If they're his friend, then they're my enemy." I remember a few months ago when someone even said that they don't respect me because I respect Jona. I have no regrets thinking Jona to be a friend of mine, and after this rather childish comment, I now have written proof that I won't ever regret thinking that Drey is a friend of mine.
You seem so offended when Drey is honest by saying he feels he can do a better job as a baron than Lupton. You also seem ticked that Drey wants to test Lupton's worth. Would you feel better if Drey said he challenged Lupton because he feels he is a worthy baron? You'd call him a backstabber to the community then, by removing someone whom he knows is a good baron.
as well as arrogant dismissals of members of our community. Surely the type
of title holder I want to see.
If you're not happy by Drey's words here, then you should be glad Lupton isn't a baron either. Didn't he retire a month or two ago, because he blew a 4-0 lead to Gaius Maximus? He said in his retirement that Cas is "the most annoying baron of DoS." Surely, then, you don't want Lupton to be a representative of the community, either.
On a side note regarding the above retirement, Lupton returned the next week after writing his alleged retirement.
This, members of the community, is the new holder of the sixth ring. I hope you're happy.
Very much so. Drey has a good head on his shoulders and can use proper judgement when it is called to him.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: jesandmd@aol.com (JESandMD)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:26:56 EDT
>A good friend of mine just had a ring stolen from him
How exactly? Please explain. Last time I checked it was Drey who won 5-3. If he wins doesn't he get the ring. He challenge was valid everything was set right and they both dueled under honor. The two fight Drey won and Drey's the new baron. Now I may not be the smartest of the guys but how in the heck is that stealing. He won fair and square and you should realize this. Lupton tried very well but lost. Drey won and got the ring. Now is that theivery?
Please explain what you mean by "He stole the ring"
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:26:56 EDT
>A good friend of mine just had a ring stolen from him
How exactly? Please explain. Last time I checked it was Drey who won 5-3. If he wins doesn't he get the ring. He challenge was valid everything was set right and they both dueled under honor. The two fight Drey won and Drey's the new baron. Now I may not be the smartest of the guys but how in the heck is that stealing. He won fair and square and you should realize this. Lupton tried very well but lost. Drey won and got the ring. Now is that theivery?
Please explain what you mean by "He stole the ring"
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:51:41 EDT
Ally...
Your comment of "the despicable thief
who stole the ring of an honorable man" was purely mistaken. One does not "steal" a ring through proper challenge and legitimate dueling.
You may not like the man, but he beat Lupton for the ring... You don't like it, ask people to challenge or challenge yourself in time. That's the way the Duel of Swords works.
Someone has a Title, someone either wants that Title or simply doesn't want that person to have that Title. A challenge is issued, a duel is fought and either a new Title holder is proclaimed or the current holder keeps the Title.
Of course, I've left out the piles of insults that often fly from every corner of the community... but I've been working on trying to ignore that stuff lately.
It's only when the insults get terribly blatant or obviously mistaken that I jump in lately.
So Drey isn't terribly articulate... I've seen plenty of others who aren't terribly articulate but you didn't blast them. I've also seen plenty of others who posted their thoughts and weren't terribly original, but you didn't blast them either.
Do you know the Baron Starke? Have you ever met him or talked to him?
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:51:41 EDT
Ally...
Your comment of "the despicable thief
who stole the ring of an honorable man" was purely mistaken. One does not "steal" a ring through proper challenge and legitimate dueling.
You may not like the man, but he beat Lupton for the ring... You don't like it, ask people to challenge or challenge yourself in time. That's the way the Duel of Swords works.
Someone has a Title, someone either wants that Title or simply doesn't want that person to have that Title. A challenge is issued, a duel is fought and either a new Title holder is proclaimed or the current holder keeps the Title.
Of course, I've left out the piles of insults that often fly from every corner of the community... but I've been working on trying to ignore that stuff lately.
It's only when the insults get terribly blatant or obviously mistaken that I jump in lately.
So Drey isn't terribly articulate... I've seen plenty of others who aren't terribly articulate but you didn't blast them. I've also seen plenty of others who posted their thoughts and weren't terribly original, but you didn't blast them either.
Do you know the Baron Starke? Have you ever met him or talked to him?
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 03:26:38 EDT
Ah, Dustin, I can answer that for you. You see, Alanna St.Reynolds likes Lupton, so in her eyes, it is stealing. Forget that the challenge was legit and the match honorably fought.
That's the emotion I got from her little rant. What I didn't get was no valid points against Drey's character, just nothing but blind hate.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Warlord in DoS
Former Baron of the Sixth
Mage in DoM
Member of HDT
The Llama-ask Huma
"I am an honorable man, but to duel me is not a pleasant experience, if only for the pain"
Date: 30 Jun 1999 03:26:38 EDT
Ah, Dustin, I can answer that for you. You see, Alanna St.Reynolds likes Lupton, so in her eyes, it is stealing. Forget that the challenge was legit and the match honorably fought.
That's the emotion I got from her little rant. What I didn't get was no valid points against Drey's character, just nothing but blind hate.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Warlord in DoS
Former Baron of the Sixth
Mage in DoM
Member of HDT
The Llama-ask Huma
"I am an honorable man, but to duel me is not a pleasant experience, if only for the pain"
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From: karnafexx@aol.com (Karnafexx)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 06:25:11 EDT
All I know is that this ring used to be the quietest of them all, now it's just another three ring circus. No pun intended.
BRK
Date: 30 Jun 1999 06:25:11 EDT
All I know is that this ring used to be the quietest of them all, now it's just another three ring circus. No pun intended.
BRK
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From: mystange@aol.com (MystAnge)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 11:02:13 EDT
Well, here I go again. Seems I'm going to have to stop saying I don't get involved in the politics of the Arena, aren't I?
Yes, I will say that Drey is a friend of mine and Eros. I will also further say I feel Lupton is as well. Ally, you know Eros and I both consider you a friend as well. This is *not* a personal attack, but I feel the need to state my opinion as you have yours. I feel this dishonors a legitimate match honorably and verifyably properly delivered, received and fought.
Drey had his peer wins before he issued challenge to Lupton. He had made prior challenge with his peer wins. A challenge he withdrew, I assume from my reading, because he realised it was issued for the wrong reasoning from his end. Just an assumption there, I have in fact not spoken to Drey regarding that challenge and am sure he will correct me if I am mistaken in my thought.
Finding that challenge, for the reasons he had stated, not fully with honor in his mind (again, my assumption), Drey looked about at the other Barons. Yes, he wished to hold the ring. Yes, being a Baron is more than a title, it is a job and responsibility. And again, yes, at the same time it is also a title, though not one without worth, and a shiny peice of jewlery, though again, not without worth. These may seem to be conflicting statements, but
this is not so if you look at them and think about them. Being a Baron is a responsibility to the sport of dueling with swords. It is to set the example others strive for. To be one of the most honed duelists in the sport. To show pride and honor in the sport. To give the example and the level of activity to show newer duelists what to strive to be in the Arena. In my opinion, it is also a responsibility to the community. As in light of the matter of
another recent challenge, the decision on handling the matter was indeed handed to the Baron's Council to ponder and make decision as to what happens next. They are also the ones that those new to the Arena watch to learn, not only swordspersonship, but to learn the histroy of the duels, the code of the rings, the value of honor, to continue to strive to be the best you can be. True, one does not have to hold and wear a Barons ring in order to do
these things. And in my opinion, either Drey or Lupton were capable of providing these examples.
Now, on to how the contridiction is not a contridiction. It is a title and a ring. One does not have to hold the title in order to achieve the above stated with the possible exception of helping to make decisions such as the Council was recently called to do. The ring is part of the history of DoS, but it is not the history in itself. Those who have held and honored the ring in the past are part of history. Most will challenge for a ring that was
in past, held by someone they admire and wish to be like. But yet, even without the title and ring, which are only the outward symbols of leadership, I am sure many can tell you of many duelists who have become part of history , remembered for their honor, work for and of the community and the examples they set without having become Barons.
You have used the word "stolen". I feel this dishonors ( yes, repeated from earlier) a challenge and duel well, hard, and honorably fought by both Lupton and Drey. It dishonors Lupton in the manner that it suggests he allowed himself to be duped into losing "posession", which I feel to be the wrong thought, of the ring and title. One may wear the ring, but it is not posessed by any one duelist, no matter who holds it. I am not bashing those who say
"my ring" . I am making the point that the ring belongs to the Duel of Swords and it has had many holders. I see those who have held a ring as guardians of that ring, not owners. Again, my opinion and feeling. Guardians nurture and honor that placed in their watch. Just as a parent does not "own" their child, but watch over it, help it to grow and become something to be proud of. I do not see Lupton as someone duped into casually dropping something
that holds value to him. I also feel he has the honor to accept and fight well to hold what is important to him. Which he did last eve. He did not allow the ring to be "taken" from him. He fought well and hard to hold the 6th. And for this he has my continued and growing respect.
To say Drey "stole" the ring dishonors him as well. His peer wins were not handed to him as a gift, they were earned. And that earning was verified. He issued proper challenge for reasons he believed to be right and honorable, else I believe he would have again withdrew his challenge.
To say the ring and title were stolen also dishonors the caller who witnessed and verified the match. Altara is a fine caller and an honorable member of our community. To say she is part of theivery, I find offensive on her behalf as a friend, co worker and community member.
To end my rambling, is this what DoS has come to? Not honor, whatever one's definition may be, honing of skill, striving to be the best one can be in a very competitive and none too easy sport, not even to the politics that abound. But to squabbling. I have yet to hear word of, or see, Lupton ever whine and show such unsportsmanlike conduct as to say a win was stolen from him. This is where honor comes in, no one likes to lose, but those with honor
take it in stride, look at where they went wrong, dust off and climb back in.
My congratulations to both Lupton and Drey on a challenge well fought. My apologies that Eros and I were not in attendance to see you both continue the history and honor of the 6th. Eros was working and I, as always, was at his side. I see strength and honor in both of you and am proud to call each of you friend and community member. May the Blessings of the Twilight follow and guide you both.
Mystik Talesedrin
Only the best achieve the highest
Date: 30 Jun 1999 11:02:13 EDT
Well, here I go again. Seems I'm going to have to stop saying I don't get involved in the politics of the Arena, aren't I?
Yes, I will say that Drey is a friend of mine and Eros. I will also further say I feel Lupton is as well. Ally, you know Eros and I both consider you a friend as well. This is *not* a personal attack, but I feel the need to state my opinion as you have yours. I feel this dishonors a legitimate match honorably and verifyably properly delivered, received and fought.
Drey had his peer wins before he issued challenge to Lupton. He had made prior challenge with his peer wins. A challenge he withdrew, I assume from my reading, because he realised it was issued for the wrong reasoning from his end. Just an assumption there, I have in fact not spoken to Drey regarding that challenge and am sure he will correct me if I am mistaken in my thought.
Finding that challenge, for the reasons he had stated, not fully with honor in his mind (again, my assumption), Drey looked about at the other Barons. Yes, he wished to hold the ring. Yes, being a Baron is more than a title, it is a job and responsibility. And again, yes, at the same time it is also a title, though not one without worth, and a shiny peice of jewlery, though again, not without worth. These may seem to be conflicting statements, but
this is not so if you look at them and think about them. Being a Baron is a responsibility to the sport of dueling with swords. It is to set the example others strive for. To be one of the most honed duelists in the sport. To show pride and honor in the sport. To give the example and the level of activity to show newer duelists what to strive to be in the Arena. In my opinion, it is also a responsibility to the community. As in light of the matter of
another recent challenge, the decision on handling the matter was indeed handed to the Baron's Council to ponder and make decision as to what happens next. They are also the ones that those new to the Arena watch to learn, not only swordspersonship, but to learn the histroy of the duels, the code of the rings, the value of honor, to continue to strive to be the best you can be. True, one does not have to hold and wear a Barons ring in order to do
these things. And in my opinion, either Drey or Lupton were capable of providing these examples.
Now, on to how the contridiction is not a contridiction. It is a title and a ring. One does not have to hold the title in order to achieve the above stated with the possible exception of helping to make decisions such as the Council was recently called to do. The ring is part of the history of DoS, but it is not the history in itself. Those who have held and honored the ring in the past are part of history. Most will challenge for a ring that was
in past, held by someone they admire and wish to be like. But yet, even without the title and ring, which are only the outward symbols of leadership, I am sure many can tell you of many duelists who have become part of history , remembered for their honor, work for and of the community and the examples they set without having become Barons.
You have used the word "stolen". I feel this dishonors ( yes, repeated from earlier) a challenge and duel well, hard, and honorably fought by both Lupton and Drey. It dishonors Lupton in the manner that it suggests he allowed himself to be duped into losing "posession", which I feel to be the wrong thought, of the ring and title. One may wear the ring, but it is not posessed by any one duelist, no matter who holds it. I am not bashing those who say
"my ring" . I am making the point that the ring belongs to the Duel of Swords and it has had many holders. I see those who have held a ring as guardians of that ring, not owners. Again, my opinion and feeling. Guardians nurture and honor that placed in their watch. Just as a parent does not "own" their child, but watch over it, help it to grow and become something to be proud of. I do not see Lupton as someone duped into casually dropping something
that holds value to him. I also feel he has the honor to accept and fight well to hold what is important to him. Which he did last eve. He did not allow the ring to be "taken" from him. He fought well and hard to hold the 6th. And for this he has my continued and growing respect.
To say Drey "stole" the ring dishonors him as well. His peer wins were not handed to him as a gift, they were earned. And that earning was verified. He issued proper challenge for reasons he believed to be right and honorable, else I believe he would have again withdrew his challenge.
To say the ring and title were stolen also dishonors the caller who witnessed and verified the match. Altara is a fine caller and an honorable member of our community. To say she is part of theivery, I find offensive on her behalf as a friend, co worker and community member.
To end my rambling, is this what DoS has come to? Not honor, whatever one's definition may be, honing of skill, striving to be the best one can be in a very competitive and none too easy sport, not even to the politics that abound. But to squabbling. I have yet to hear word of, or see, Lupton ever whine and show such unsportsmanlike conduct as to say a win was stolen from him. This is where honor comes in, no one likes to lose, but those with honor
take it in stride, look at where they went wrong, dust off and climb back in.
My congratulations to both Lupton and Drey on a challenge well fought. My apologies that Eros and I were not in attendance to see you both continue the history and honor of the 6th. Eros was working and I, as always, was at his side. I see strength and honor in both of you and am proud to call each of you friend and community member. May the Blessings of the Twilight follow and guide you both.
Mystik Talesedrin
Only the best achieve the highest
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From: poltreidun@aol.com (PolTreidun)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 11:37:13 EDT
Why are we even wasting our time on this? The little baby posted some piece of crap because her man didn't win.
I don't see what the title of the subject has to do with the actual post though. Of course, I won't claim to have slogged through the filthy rag objectively. I could tell right off this was just a letter from someone I'll never meet trying to rain on someone's parade.
Pol
Date: 30 Jun 1999 11:37:13 EDT
Why are we even wasting our time on this? The little baby posted some piece of crap because her man didn't win.
I don't see what the title of the subject has to do with the actual post though. Of course, I won't claim to have slogged through the filthy rag objectively. I could tell right off this was just a letter from someone I'll never meet trying to rain on someone's parade.
Pol
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From: sartanz@aol.com (Sartan Z)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 12:33:28 EDT
Know what? Whether or not I agree with Ally is immaterial. She got her point across about her feelings on the newest holder of the Sixth, and I'm quite certain she won't care that most of you are referring to her as a "little baby" or whatever the colorful descriptions were.
On a side note, Ally is not married to Rix, and Lupton was not Rix's mentor. Facts are good things, people.
~S
Date: 30 Jun 1999 12:33:28 EDT
Know what? Whether or not I agree with Ally is immaterial. She got her point across about her feelings on the newest holder of the Sixth, and I'm quite certain she won't care that most of you are referring to her as a "little baby" or whatever the colorful descriptions were.
On a side note, Ally is not married to Rix, and Lupton was not Rix's mentor. Facts are good things, people.
~S
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From: qxz137@aol.com (QXZ137)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 12:55:13 EDT
Heh? You think that your favorite dueler had his ring "stolen" because a challenger won it from him? If so, praytell, how did the *previous* baron get his ring?
Quizxs
Quack. Quack begins with a Q. Q is good, hence Quack is good.
Date: 30 Jun 1999 12:55:13 EDT
Heh? You think that your favorite dueler had his ring "stolen" because a challenger won it from him? If so, praytell, how did the *previous* baron get his ring?
Quizxs
Quack. Quack begins with a Q. Q is good, hence Quack is good.
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 13:36:10 EDT
Ally,
With all due respect, you might not be a fan of Drey's, but you have no right to refer the Baron's ring on his finger as stolen unless the challenger intentionally did something illegal.
To my knowledge, no one has raised the question of the validity of Drey's challenge. Were his bona fides, as Jona refers to them, in order and out for public view? Did the caller, Altara Poison, sign her name to the notice she placed on the cork for all to see after she called the match?
In my experience of late, if a challenge is suspected to be invalid, Lady Starfare would have been one of the first to speak on it. Although, I have seen her opinions written on other matches, so far I have not seen any question regarding this one.
Lupton has several times held a baronial ring and may again in future. I don't see him whining over it.
Please explain exactly how a ring that was won with legitmate peer wins, posted and validated, and a match called and won by the ring's new holder was stolen.
Colleen Lasher
Date: 30 Jun 1999 13:36:10 EDT
Ally,
With all due respect, you might not be a fan of Drey's, but you have no right to refer the Baron's ring on his finger as stolen unless the challenger intentionally did something illegal.
To my knowledge, no one has raised the question of the validity of Drey's challenge. Were his bona fides, as Jona refers to them, in order and out for public view? Did the caller, Altara Poison, sign her name to the notice she placed on the cork for all to see after she called the match?
In my experience of late, if a challenge is suspected to be invalid, Lady Starfare would have been one of the first to speak on it. Although, I have seen her opinions written on other matches, so far I have not seen any question regarding this one.
Lupton has several times held a baronial ring and may again in future. I don't see him whining over it.
Please explain exactly how a ring that was won with legitmate peer wins, posted and validated, and a match called and won by the ring's new holder was stolen.
Colleen Lasher
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 14:44:47 EDT
::blinks::
Forcing his opinion upon us? I think thats a bit hypocritical, not to mention, a statement which should be directed toward you. Stole the ring? Miss, you must certainly be jesting..Lup -lost- the ring, in an challenge match. It is also a tad odd that Lupton isn't making an outcry against a fair match, but you are. This is a sport, people win and loss matches..you should have argued that he holds no ethical morals of honour and he should not be
challenging, but instead, he challenges and wins, the walls fall down; if he challenged and loss, all is silent. Furthermore, since when did any sole person develop the criteria for becoming a baron, aside from the mechanics of challenging? Certainly, you have the right to voice your opinion, but to make a pleading that the ring was "stolen" and that he is an unfit baron without substantial reasoning that would make him unfit to challenge is just
beyond me, though I don't know how it stands with the others; though the call for retirement shouldn't sit very well.
Drey challenged,
Lupton lost.
Grow up.
Coron.
Date: 30 Jun 1999 14:44:47 EDT
::blinks::
Forcing his opinion upon us? I think thats a bit hypocritical, not to mention, a statement which should be directed toward you. Stole the ring? Miss, you must certainly be jesting..Lup -lost- the ring, in an challenge match. It is also a tad odd that Lupton isn't making an outcry against a fair match, but you are. This is a sport, people win and loss matches..you should have argued that he holds no ethical morals of honour and he should not be
challenging, but instead, he challenges and wins, the walls fall down; if he challenged and loss, all is silent. Furthermore, since when did any sole person develop the criteria for becoming a baron, aside from the mechanics of challenging? Certainly, you have the right to voice your opinion, but to make a pleading that the ring was "stolen" and that he is an unfit baron without substantial reasoning that would make him unfit to challenge is just
beyond me, though I don't know how it stands with the others; though the call for retirement shouldn't sit very well.
Drey challenged,
Lupton lost.
Grow up.
Coron.
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 14:53:06 EDT
I am truly surprised at the lack of analytical thought anyone has here trying to figure out what Ally means. From what we know of Ally, it is safe to assume she is intelligent: she is well read, asks smart questions, and has a strong grasp of the language. We can also assume that because of these intelligent skills, that she is quite well versed in the rules.
So, what does it mean when an obviously intelligent person makes a statement that most people know is not true? I mean, really, Drey "followed the rules," did he not? Ally is being downright slanderous, you murmur to others milling about the boards.
Gather 'round boys and girls, it is time for our lesson on what is known as a "literary/academic device." The device in particular we will examine is called a "metaphor." What are a few examples of metaphors?
"He got caught with his finger in the till" means the person was caught in the act.
"Twilight/dusk of life" means middle age.
How about in a duel when someone is controlling the match? The metaphor we use is "you own your opponent," and unless we are Jaycynda, we are not literally owned by our opponent.
What about when we assuredly win a match, say, 5-1 in 6 rounds? It is called a "slaughter" and no one needs to brutally die for it to be called such.
Some people say Dalamar got "slapped on the wrist" to mean they believe he got off without a suitable punishment, not that he was literally slapped on the wrist. Yes, some metaphors are cliche.
So, Ally metaphorically makes a charge to Drey. If I infer correctly, she is alluding to a belief that Drey is not what he seems, that he puts on a false face, and manipulates people and issues to get what he wants, and, more importantly, that what he wants is not in the least bit altruistic, for the benefit of the community/sport. She alludes that he is power hungry and in it only for glory and gain and thus will take what he wants and use whatever
means to get what he wants.
She might be implying that he has played up on the belief that the community will choose to support him over Lupton in a lesser-of-two-evils situation. For one thing, he has become quite chummy with a nemesis of sorts who holds no small power within the sport, Taylara. During all of this, Ally charges that he contradicts himself when it suits his purposes and works to discredit Lupton using doublespeak.
In this case, I believe she is lumping him in with the unsavory types: thieves, cons, liars. On another level, she is saying he "stole" honor and integrity from what the ring and title stand for and also attempted to "steal" Lupton's dignity and worth in the community by casting aspersions on his character then later saying he meant no insult to Lupton personally.
Whether or not I agree with Ally's comments is not relevant; however, my respect for this very clever woman has just gone up a notch or two (another metaphor, I do not really notch things) for her creative ways of making a point. Too bad her audience was so ill-chosen, since they could not understand it.
-M
Date: 30 Jun 1999 14:53:06 EDT
I am truly surprised at the lack of analytical thought anyone has here trying to figure out what Ally means. From what we know of Ally, it is safe to assume she is intelligent: she is well read, asks smart questions, and has a strong grasp of the language. We can also assume that because of these intelligent skills, that she is quite well versed in the rules.
So, what does it mean when an obviously intelligent person makes a statement that most people know is not true? I mean, really, Drey "followed the rules," did he not? Ally is being downright slanderous, you murmur to others milling about the boards.
Gather 'round boys and girls, it is time for our lesson on what is known as a "literary/academic device." The device in particular we will examine is called a "metaphor." What are a few examples of metaphors?
"He got caught with his finger in the till" means the person was caught in the act.
"Twilight/dusk of life" means middle age.
How about in a duel when someone is controlling the match? The metaphor we use is "you own your opponent," and unless we are Jaycynda, we are not literally owned by our opponent.
What about when we assuredly win a match, say, 5-1 in 6 rounds? It is called a "slaughter" and no one needs to brutally die for it to be called such.
Some people say Dalamar got "slapped on the wrist" to mean they believe he got off without a suitable punishment, not that he was literally slapped on the wrist. Yes, some metaphors are cliche.
So, Ally metaphorically makes a charge to Drey. If I infer correctly, she is alluding to a belief that Drey is not what he seems, that he puts on a false face, and manipulates people and issues to get what he wants, and, more importantly, that what he wants is not in the least bit altruistic, for the benefit of the community/sport. She alludes that he is power hungry and in it only for glory and gain and thus will take what he wants and use whatever
means to get what he wants.
She might be implying that he has played up on the belief that the community will choose to support him over Lupton in a lesser-of-two-evils situation. For one thing, he has become quite chummy with a nemesis of sorts who holds no small power within the sport, Taylara. During all of this, Ally charges that he contradicts himself when it suits his purposes and works to discredit Lupton using doublespeak.
In this case, I believe she is lumping him in with the unsavory types: thieves, cons, liars. On another level, she is saying he "stole" honor and integrity from what the ring and title stand for and also attempted to "steal" Lupton's dignity and worth in the community by casting aspersions on his character then later saying he meant no insult to Lupton personally.
Whether or not I agree with Ally's comments is not relevant; however, my respect for this very clever woman has just gone up a notch or two (another metaphor, I do not really notch things) for her creative ways of making a point. Too bad her audience was so ill-chosen, since they could not understand it.
-M
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 15:12:45 EDT
I must say, well spoken Morgan.
I did not mention this earlier but I shall do it now.
I happen to find it meaningful when someone claims it was a well fought match. After the match, Lupton muttered and groaned because I had won. Speaking of which, I told him dueled well and it was very well fought. He told me that it wasn't and went on mumbling out of the ring. This is only an -opinion-, but even a common curtsy would be meaningful to me. He couldn't even give me a good job but instead he muttered and gave up the ring.
~ Drey Starke FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">~
Date: 30 Jun 1999 15:12:45 EDT
I must say, well spoken Morgan.
I did not mention this earlier but I shall do it now.
I happen to find it meaningful when someone claims it was a well fought match. After the match, Lupton muttered and groaned because I had won. Speaking of which, I told him dueled well and it was very well fought. He told me that it wasn't and went on mumbling out of the ring. This is only an -opinion-, but even a common curtsy would be meaningful to me. He couldn't even give me a good job but instead he muttered and gave up the ring.
~ Drey Starke FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">~