From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 16:54:57 EDT
Esteemed Baron's and Baroness's and patron's of DoS
After tallying all the votes, with a little help from Avery (thank you very much). It seems we have come to the following.
Regarding the Second Ring.
The majority votes in favor of having Ajay champion the ring.
Reagrding the Eighth Ring
The majority votes that Aspen be returned his peer wins and right to challenge.
The majority also votes to strip Meth of the Eighth Ring and place it as a prize in the upcomming Warlord's Tournament.
Gimzak
Regarding the Second and Eighth Rings
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From: aspenminds@aol.com (AspenMinds)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 18:35:45 EDT
That is just fine with me...
Aspen
Date: 23 Aug 1999 18:35:45 EDT
That is just fine with me...
Aspen
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:11:18 EDT
I am wondering where I might find the notice regarding what happened with the Second Ring? You (the council) only say that AJay will champion the ring, but do not say what lead up to this decision and who currently holds the ring, if anyone. Or at least, I cannot recall seeing such notice upon the boards.
Thank you.
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:11:18 EDT
I am wondering where I might find the notice regarding what happened with the Second Ring? You (the council) only say that AJay will champion the ring, but do not say what lead up to this decision and who currently holds the ring, if anyone. Or at least, I cannot recall seeing such notice upon the boards.
Thank you.
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From: methous45@aol.com (Methous45)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:24:13 EDT
::Still not hearing a single rule he broke::
Well, do hope the staff banishes me, for if they don't, who of the 13 is safe?
Meth
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:24:13 EDT
::Still not hearing a single rule he broke::
Well, do hope the staff banishes me, for if they don't, who of the 13 is safe?
Meth
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:27:45 EDT
Morgan,
I don't recall if it was ever posted before, but as one of the few who has received letters from the council regarding the decision, I feel this breakdown is accurate:
Lucian no longer bears the title as baron of the second. AJ duels Deluthan, as a champion, to see if Deluthan is worthy of bearing the title. If AJ wins, then the second ring will go into the tourney along with the fourth, seventh, and eighth.
If that still hasn't answered your question, then I apologize for the time taken in reading this potentially uninformative letter.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
Sorcerer of DoM
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:27:45 EDT
Morgan,
I don't recall if it was ever posted before, but as one of the few who has received letters from the council regarding the decision, I feel this breakdown is accurate:
Lucian no longer bears the title as baron of the second. AJ duels Deluthan, as a champion, to see if Deluthan is worthy of bearing the title. If AJ wins, then the second ring will go into the tourney along with the fourth, seventh, and eighth.
If that still hasn't answered your question, then I apologize for the time taken in reading this potentially uninformative letter.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
Sorcerer of DoM
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:28:18 EDT
Morgan,
I believe they are saying that, as AJay is championing the ring, Deluthan will duel AJay for the ring and that Lucian has lost it. I would tend to think this an extreme choice, myself, even a bad one. Of course, I could be wrong.
To everyone else, in regard to the decision made regarding the 8th ring, why was Aspen allowed to keep his peers? His behavior, from everything I have seen, heard, and read, was as bad as Meth's. I think it is great he doesn't get a shot at the ring, but I don't like the idea of him being able to challenge someone else right away. Come to think of it, who does like the idea?
Percy
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:28:18 EDT
Morgan,
I believe they are saying that, as AJay is championing the ring, Deluthan will duel AJay for the ring and that Lucian has lost it. I would tend to think this an extreme choice, myself, even a bad one. Of course, I could be wrong.
To everyone else, in regard to the decision made regarding the 8th ring, why was Aspen allowed to keep his peers? His behavior, from everything I have seen, heard, and read, was as bad as Meth's. I think it is great he doesn't get a shot at the ring, but I don't like the idea of him being able to challenge someone else right away. Come to think of it, who does like the idea?
Percy
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:34:51 EDT
Ah. Thank you, Var.
Perhaps I am the only one who felt a formal announcement more fitting considering a loss of title was the result.
Perhaps the council felt the matter was unimportant and thus it slipped the remaining members' minds.
Pity.
I would have liked to know the reasons for first, stripping Lucian of his title, and second, how it was decided that Ajay be the champion.
If anyone could be bothered to share this with the rest of the community, it might be appreciated.
For that matter, if anyone could be bothered to share the status of anything before the council (like the matter of the 8th ring), it might be appreciated. Unless, of course, it is now decided that what happens in council is secret and must be kept from the general populace.
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:34:51 EDT
Ah. Thank you, Var.
Perhaps I am the only one who felt a formal announcement more fitting considering a loss of title was the result.
Perhaps the council felt the matter was unimportant and thus it slipped the remaining members' minds.
Pity.
I would have liked to know the reasons for first, stripping Lucian of his title, and second, how it was decided that Ajay be the champion.
If anyone could be bothered to share this with the rest of the community, it might be appreciated.
For that matter, if anyone could be bothered to share the status of anything before the council (like the matter of the 8th ring), it might be appreciated. Unless, of course, it is now decided that what happens in council is secret and must be kept from the general populace.
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From: shivblade@aol.com (SHIV BLADE)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:42:47 EDT
To all,
As always I will state how I voted on these issues. I feel that as barons, are voices should be heard, or thoughts should be known. Therefor some will have reason to challenge in the future, if the differ in thought.
First to Morgan. Var is right. Most know that the council elected to have a public vote with he second ring. It was found that Lucian was to be stripped, and Del to face a challenger. I think, since this was the first time a public vote was held, that we just blanked, and forgot to mention the vote to the boards.
My voting.
For the Second, I choose to strip Lucian of the ring. Then again, I have publicly stated that already. I also choose Ajay to champion him, as I believe Ajay to be a great dueler, and one who should have as much right as anyone to test the warlord.
For the Eighth. I felt that what was done was horrid. And so I voted to Strip the baron of the ring. I also voted to strip the Per wins. Much along the thoughts of Percy.
In no way does my voting reflect the exact thoughts of the council. They are my opinions.
As written by Christopher
Avery Shiv Blade
Baron of the 12th
Diamond
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:42:47 EDT
To all,
As always I will state how I voted on these issues. I feel that as barons, are voices should be heard, or thoughts should be known. Therefor some will have reason to challenge in the future, if the differ in thought.
First to Morgan. Var is right. Most know that the council elected to have a public vote with he second ring. It was found that Lucian was to be stripped, and Del to face a challenger. I think, since this was the first time a public vote was held, that we just blanked, and forgot to mention the vote to the boards.
My voting.
For the Second, I choose to strip Lucian of the ring. Then again, I have publicly stated that already. I also choose Ajay to champion him, as I believe Ajay to be a great dueler, and one who should have as much right as anyone to test the warlord.
For the Eighth. I felt that what was done was horrid. And so I voted to Strip the baron of the ring. I also voted to strip the Per wins. Much along the thoughts of Percy.
In no way does my voting reflect the exact thoughts of the council. They are my opinions.
As written by Christopher
Avery Shiv Blade
Baron of the 12th
Diamond
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:46:23 EDT
Morgan,
Ajay was chosen as champion because he mailed the members of the Council and asked if it would be allowed. He said he would like to defend his former ring again.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:46:23 EDT
Morgan,
Ajay was chosen as champion because he mailed the members of the Council and asked if it would be allowed. He said he would like to defend his former ring again.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
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From: rixfavre@aol.com (Rix Favre)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 20:33:16 EDT
I still disagree with the decision the council reached in regard to the second ring. I voted a rematch be held, but five members (four in reality, as Avery, contrary to what he wrote, did not vote for himself and gave his vote to Magnus to use at his discretion) of the council chose this absurd solution while four voted the two original participants duel and keep the council out of an affair we were asked not to
interfere with. As such, I abstained from choosing a champion.
As for the eighth, as Aspen in reality did not brake any rule, I felt it would be too harsh to strip him of any peer wins or right to challenge. And as Methous showed utter disregard for the ring, I voted he be stripped of it so a more deserving duelist can take a hold of it.
-Rix
Baron of the Fifth
Date: 23 Aug 1999 20:33:16 EDT
I still disagree with the decision the council reached in regard to the second ring. I voted a rematch be held, but five members (four in reality, as Avery, contrary to what he wrote, did not vote for himself and gave his vote to Magnus to use at his discretion) of the council chose this absurd solution while four voted the two original participants duel and keep the council out of an affair we were asked not to
interfere with. As such, I abstained from choosing a champion.
As for the eighth, as Aspen in reality did not brake any rule, I felt it would be too harsh to strip him of any peer wins or right to challenge. And as Methous showed utter disregard for the ring, I voted he be stripped of it so a more deserving duelist can take a hold of it.
-Rix
Baron of the Fifth
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 21:35:21 EDT
Gentles of the Council,
In the matter of thine decision with respect t' th' Eighth Ring, thee aire ta be commended in stripping the ring and title from the one known ast Methous. One who hast shown such heinous behavior o'er time culminating wi' 'is desecration 'o th' Eighth Ring deserves little else.
In that thee hae returned unto the challenger, Aspen, his bona fides and right to present challenge, I would hope that the warlord, Aspen wouldst think long an verra 'ard afore presenting a further challenge. By the grace of the Council and their magnanimity, they hae permitted Aspen the opportunity to perhaps atone for his disgraceful and callous comments placed upon this cork. I shall point out to the Council and the community that the warlord
Aspen hae little knowledge of e'en th' names 'o th' Council members, yet he presented challenge for title and ring. One wouldst think that one who seeks titled rank wouldst at th' verra least hae a modicum 'o knowledge 'o those peers he wishes to join.
The Eighth Ring, though desecrated, ist nae longer tainted, and fer that, I do humbly thank the Council of Barons.
In the matter of the Second Ring, the choice of the retired Baron, AJ "Warbird" Bird t' champion the ring speaks well of the Council. During his reign, th' former Baron didst, ta me mind, uphold the honor of the duels, his integrity and th' honor of his title ast Holder of the Second. Though I wast sorely troubled when he didst remove 'is allegiance unta th' Lord Dalamar ArD'aumon, ne'er let it be said th' th' former Baron didst nae disgrace th'
Second Ring.
Morgan,
Aye, lass, I ast well ast thee wouldst hope th' Council members wouldst speak out publicly and forthrightly unto th' community ast t' their reasons ast well ast making their final decision known unta th' Community.
Baron Avery Shiv Blade,
I do thank thee most kindly for thine forthrightness.
I wouldst call upon the members of the Council to declare upon the cork their decision unto the community. I am reminded of the forthrightness of many of the Barons during the Council's debate in th' matter of th' challenge of th' warlord Huma Dragonbane unta th' then Overlord, Dalamar ArD'aumon and wouldst hope this Council wouldst be ast forthcoming.
Respectfully,
Jonalyn Starfare
Common as they come
Date: 23 Aug 1999 21:35:21 EDT
Gentles of the Council,
In the matter of thine decision with respect t' th' Eighth Ring, thee aire ta be commended in stripping the ring and title from the one known ast Methous. One who hast shown such heinous behavior o'er time culminating wi' 'is desecration 'o th' Eighth Ring deserves little else.
In that thee hae returned unto the challenger, Aspen, his bona fides and right to present challenge, I would hope that the warlord, Aspen wouldst think long an verra 'ard afore presenting a further challenge. By the grace of the Council and their magnanimity, they hae permitted Aspen the opportunity to perhaps atone for his disgraceful and callous comments placed upon this cork. I shall point out to the Council and the community that the warlord
Aspen hae little knowledge of e'en th' names 'o th' Council members, yet he presented challenge for title and ring. One wouldst think that one who seeks titled rank wouldst at th' verra least hae a modicum 'o knowledge 'o those peers he wishes to join.
The Eighth Ring, though desecrated, ist nae longer tainted, and fer that, I do humbly thank the Council of Barons.
In the matter of the Second Ring, the choice of the retired Baron, AJ "Warbird" Bird t' champion the ring speaks well of the Council. During his reign, th' former Baron didst, ta me mind, uphold the honor of the duels, his integrity and th' honor of his title ast Holder of the Second. Though I wast sorely troubled when he didst remove 'is allegiance unta th' Lord Dalamar ArD'aumon, ne'er let it be said th' th' former Baron didst nae disgrace th'
Second Ring.
Morgan,
Aye, lass, I ast well ast thee wouldst hope th' Council members wouldst speak out publicly and forthrightly unto th' community ast t' their reasons ast well ast making their final decision known unta th' Community.
Baron Avery Shiv Blade,
I do thank thee most kindly for thine forthrightness.
I wouldst call upon the members of the Council to declare upon the cork their decision unto the community. I am reminded of the forthrightness of many of the Barons during the Council's debate in th' matter of th' challenge of th' warlord Huma Dragonbane unta th' then Overlord, Dalamar ArD'aumon and wouldst hope this Council wouldst be ast forthcoming.
Respectfully,
Jonalyn Starfare
Common as they come
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 21:54:46 EDT
I voted Luc be stripped of the ring. According to Del, he wanted to press challenge, but his heart was not set into dueling Luc. If he wanted to duel Lucian, then I would have been more than happy to allow the rematch, despite the penalty I felt should have been invoked. However, that is not the case, and I am honoring Del's wish, along with punishing a baron who failed
to show.
Why AJ? He expressed interest in defending the ring again. He is the one who has made a legacy out of the second ring. Personally, I can't find a reason to not have him serve as champion.
For the Eighth ring, I didn't vote on stripping Meth of the ring. In fact, no baron should have voted how to handle Meth, as we were instructed by the staff to let them handle Meth, while we focus on Aspen.
But I voted that Aspen get his peer wins and right to challenge back, because he didn't break any rules. He was unreasonable, and he did things that upset us, but when the council votes on matters, they shouldn't let their personal feelings cloud proper judgement. It's why I didn't think Huma should have been punished when he challenged Dal, despite going back on his word, and it's why I didn't penalize Aspen for acting unreasonable.
The priorities of judgement, in my opinion should be:
1. Rules
2. Circumstances
3. Personal judgement
Once you see someone's broken the rules, you look at the circumstances as to why the rules were broken, and use your personal judgement to establish what consequences should be used. Aspen broke no rules, so there was no need to continue down the ladder.
If there's anything I forgot, please feel free to ask. I have no hidden agendas, with nothing to hide to the community. I only apologize I didn't inform everyone of my position sooner, if they were interested.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
Sorcerer of DoM
Date: 23 Aug 1999 21:54:46 EDT
I voted Luc be stripped of the ring. According to Del, he wanted to press challenge, but his heart was not set into dueling Luc. If he wanted to duel Lucian, then I would have been more than happy to allow the rematch, despite the penalty I felt should have been invoked. However, that is not the case, and I am honoring Del's wish, along with punishing a baron who failed
to show.
Why AJ? He expressed interest in defending the ring again. He is the one who has made a legacy out of the second ring. Personally, I can't find a reason to not have him serve as champion.
For the Eighth ring, I didn't vote on stripping Meth of the ring. In fact, no baron should have voted how to handle Meth, as we were instructed by the staff to let them handle Meth, while we focus on Aspen.
But I voted that Aspen get his peer wins and right to challenge back, because he didn't break any rules. He was unreasonable, and he did things that upset us, but when the council votes on matters, they shouldn't let their personal feelings cloud proper judgement. It's why I didn't think Huma should have been punished when he challenged Dal, despite going back on his word, and it's why I didn't penalize Aspen for acting unreasonable.
The priorities of judgement, in my opinion should be:
1. Rules
2. Circumstances
3. Personal judgement
Once you see someone's broken the rules, you look at the circumstances as to why the rules were broken, and use your personal judgement to establish what consequences should be used. Aspen broke no rules, so there was no need to continue down the ladder.
If there's anything I forgot, please feel free to ask. I have no hidden agendas, with nothing to hide to the community. I only apologize I didn't inform everyone of my position sooner, if they were interested.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
Sorcerer of DoM
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 22:08:35 EDT
Thank you to those of you who shared your stances.
Rix, I share your sentiments regarding the Second ring.
Date: 23 Aug 1999 22:08:35 EDT
Thank you to those of you who shared your stances.
Rix, I share your sentiments regarding the Second ring.
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From: simini@aol.com (Simini)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 22:35:57 EDT
Patrons, Council Members and Staff,
Firstly, I wish to thank Morgan and Jona for asking that the Council activities and deliberations be made public. I have repeatedly stated my similar opinions on the matter, but felt uncomfortable, as a junior member, to do more than state that opinion - and mayhaps occasionally taking the liberty of posting my personal Council activities. Be assured that my discomfort in this matter has dissipated.
Secondly, I would like to have my votes made public for these issues:
Second Ring: I voted for a rematch, with severe penalties for Lucian's missing a scheduled Challenge.
Since this was not the majority opinion, I then voted that the Overlord Champion the Second against Deluthan. I voted this way because again, I feel that this is one of the Overlord's implied responsibilities; although not one that should be held to hard-and-fast. Since AJ stated a desire to Champion the Second, I saw no reason to stand in his way.
Eighth Ring: I voted for Aspen to be denied his Challenge, although returning his peer wins. Why? His conduct, while disdainful, was not technically an infraction of the Rules. Additionally, he had stated several times that he no longer had a desire for the Ring.
I did NOT vote to strip Methous of his title. While his conduct was deplorable as well, we were asked by the DoS Supervisor to vote only in the matter of "the challenge itself". Master Evermeadow stated any further punishment was a matter to "be dealt with by the sport's management."
Please feel free to question me at any time regarding any of my actions on the Council.
Respectfully,
~ Simini
Date: 23 Aug 1999 22:35:57 EDT
Patrons, Council Members and Staff,
Firstly, I wish to thank Morgan and Jona for asking that the Council activities and deliberations be made public. I have repeatedly stated my similar opinions on the matter, but felt uncomfortable, as a junior member, to do more than state that opinion - and mayhaps occasionally taking the liberty of posting my personal Council activities. Be assured that my discomfort in this matter has dissipated.
Secondly, I would like to have my votes made public for these issues:
Second Ring: I voted for a rematch, with severe penalties for Lucian's missing a scheduled Challenge.
Since this was not the majority opinion, I then voted that the Overlord Champion the Second against Deluthan. I voted this way because again, I feel that this is one of the Overlord's implied responsibilities; although not one that should be held to hard-and-fast. Since AJ stated a desire to Champion the Second, I saw no reason to stand in his way.
Eighth Ring: I voted for Aspen to be denied his Challenge, although returning his peer wins. Why? His conduct, while disdainful, was not technically an infraction of the Rules. Additionally, he had stated several times that he no longer had a desire for the Ring.
I did NOT vote to strip Methous of his title. While his conduct was deplorable as well, we were asked by the DoS Supervisor to vote only in the matter of "the challenge itself". Master Evermeadow stated any further punishment was a matter to "be dealt with by the sport's management."
Please feel free to question me at any time regarding any of my actions on the Council.
Respectfully,
~ Simini
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 23 Aug 1999 23:16:06 EDT
Bumbling through the posts, he discovered Ajay's name for the first time in this matter. "News to me.." he muttered. Then he wrote:
While we're along the line of public awareness, I'm rather curious as to why word was not given on the cork of the outcome of Overlord Gunthar and former Overlord Rising's challenge match.
Deluthan
Date: 23 Aug 1999 23:16:06 EDT
Bumbling through the posts, he discovered Ajay's name for the first time in this matter. "News to me.." he muttered. Then he wrote:
While we're along the line of public awareness, I'm rather curious as to why word was not given on the cork of the outcome of Overlord Gunthar and former Overlord Rising's challenge match.
Deluthan