From: hostpcgdestre@aol.com (HOST PCG Destre)
Date: 18 Apr 2002 01:02:48 EDT
It was my pleasure and honor to call a Challenge match between Cletus Ganderfald, Baron of the 9th ring, and Elijah Basia Uhr, Baron of the 12th ring, this Wednesday night April 17th at 11pm in the Arena. The terms of this challenge match were as had been posted on the cork board previously by Cletus. That if Elijah could best him he would give up his intention to challenge the Overlord, Dalamar, as well as his Baron's
ring. If Cletus were to best Elijah then Elijah would give up his Baron's ring and any other Baron's that were present could challenge Cletus under the same terms. After a grueling 27 round match the epic spectacle was ended with Elijah coming out the winner. Cletus surrendered the 9th Baron's ring, which I have already delivered to Nych, and a note sent to the Commission who will determine what is to be done about the vacancy.
Des
Baron vs. Baron Challenge Results
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 18 Apr 2002 18:19:26 EDT
I didn't know officials were allowed to sanction such illegal, stupid "spectacles."
It figures Cletus would be the one in charge of the whole thing.
- Starke
Date: 18 Apr 2002 18:19:26 EDT
I didn't know officials were allowed to sanction such illegal, stupid "spectacles."
It figures Cletus would be the one in charge of the whole thing.
- Starke
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From: itharrx@aol.com (Itharrx)
Date: 18 Apr 2002 19:51:27 EDT
Someone has to do something to get some kind of action going don't they? Since no one but the same people seem to be challenging, and getting challenged.
I have to applaud his initiative in doing something.
Ith
Date: 18 Apr 2002 19:51:27 EDT
Someone has to do something to get some kind of action going don't they? Since no one but the same people seem to be challenging, and getting challenged.
I have to applaud his initiative in doing something.
Ith
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 18 Apr 2002 20:42:51 EDT
So suddenly since we have to do something, as you put it, we have to challenge other barons illegally?
Ah, it all makes perfect sense now. Especially since even an official stood over it.
- Starke
Date: 18 Apr 2002 20:42:51 EDT
So suddenly since we have to do something, as you put it, we have to challenge other barons illegally?
Ah, it all makes perfect sense now. Especially since even an official stood over it.
- Starke
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 18 Apr 2002 21:29:34 EDT
>Since when has making an offer, and holding true to your word been Illegal?
Did you see anyone arguing that? I didn't.
- Starke
Date: 18 Apr 2002 21:29:34 EDT
>Since when has making an offer, and holding true to your word been Illegal?
Did you see anyone arguing that? I didn't.
- Starke
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 18 Apr 2002 22:00:41 EDT
I made the mistake of sanctioning a couple Baron versus Baron duels, mostly that between Jesse and a couple other duelists who decided to go up against him. I think one was Gunthar, don't know who the other one was.
Maybe I shouldn't have, mostly because I'm against "honor" duels. Nothing can be done now, though. Same thing applies here.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Date: 18 Apr 2002 22:00:41 EDT
I made the mistake of sanctioning a couple Baron versus Baron duels, mostly that between Jesse and a couple other duelists who decided to go up against him. I think one was Gunthar, don't know who the other one was.
Maybe I shouldn't have, mostly because I'm against "honor" duels. Nothing can be done now, though. Same thing applies here.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
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From: itharrx@aol.com (Itharrx)
Date: 19 Apr 2002 11:13:40 EDT
Ah I get it now myself...let's wait until everything is done and over and then gripe about it. That will accomplish alot.
And yeah, just what was illeagal about it if I may ask?
Ith
Date: 19 Apr 2002 11:13:40 EDT
Ah I get it now myself...let's wait until everything is done and over and then gripe about it. That will accomplish alot.
And yeah, just what was illeagal about it if I may ask?
Ith
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 19 Apr 2002 13:22:56 EDT
"And yeah, just what was illeagal about it if I may ask?"
While not speaking on Drey's behalf... One can make the argument that it is an official sanctioning a duel that is neither a challenge nor is one during regular dueling hours.
Of course, I'm not remarking whether or not it is illegal. If it is illegal, I'm just as guilty for doing it for Jesse Troyan, so I'm not one to talk. I'm just saying what one could argue.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Date: 19 Apr 2002 13:22:56 EDT
"And yeah, just what was illeagal about it if I may ask?"
While not speaking on Drey's behalf... One can make the argument that it is an official sanctioning a duel that is neither a challenge nor is one during regular dueling hours.
Of course, I'm not remarking whether or not it is illegal. If it is illegal, I'm just as guilty for doing it for Jesse Troyan, so I'm not one to talk. I'm just saying what one could argue.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
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From: gnrtdrgoon@aol.com (GnrtDrgoon)
Date: 19 Apr 2002 14:42:31 EDT
There is nothing illegal about it.
If Cletus had said "Well, I don't want to retire my ring" he very well could have kept his Barony, despite the fact he lost his offered match.
Just because an official called it doesn't make it an "Official Duel"
Date: 19 Apr 2002 14:42:31 EDT
There is nothing illegal about it.
If Cletus had said "Well, I don't want to retire my ring" he very well could have kept his Barony, despite the fact he lost his offered match.
Just because an official called it doesn't make it an "Official Duel"
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 19 Apr 2002 16:38:40 EDT
What was illegal was fairly obvious.
>let's wait until everything is done and over and then gripe about it. That
>will accomplish alot.
Actually, its the fact that an official was the caller that irked me. I probably would have griped before had I known. Does that make you feel better now that you know that?
I'm not even upset over it. I'm bothered that Nych, when I had a sort of thing somewhat like this, threatened to take my ring from me before I actually tried it--now, we have officials actually standing over the duels.
How refreshing to know this place is fickle. But seriously, that is frightening.
- Starke
Date: 19 Apr 2002 16:38:40 EDT
What was illegal was fairly obvious.
>let's wait until everything is done and over and then gripe about it. That
>will accomplish alot.
Actually, its the fact that an official was the caller that irked me. I probably would have griped before had I known. Does that make you feel better now that you know that?
I'm not even upset over it. I'm bothered that Nych, when I had a sort of thing somewhat like this, threatened to take my ring from me before I actually tried it--now, we have officials actually standing over the duels.
How refreshing to know this place is fickle. But seriously, that is frightening.
- Starke
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From: araneganderfald@aol.com (Arane Ganderfald)
Date: 19 Apr 2002 21:05:42 EDT
Drey,
There is nothing in the rules that says that this is forbidden. While the rules clearly do not sanction such a match, they do not outlaw it either. Therefore, deeming it "illegal" is, at the very least, poor word choice.
You have no say in what matches officials call in their spare time just as you have no say in what goes on in their personal lives. If Destre wished to tally points in a match between two bums in an alley, who are you to tell her that she is not allowed?
Simply because something is not specifically laid out in the rules, does not mean that doing it is illegal. These are unofficial matches that serve a purpose for those participating.
These matches get barons into the ring and keep them in top form, giving the barons more chances to influence their ranks. It also leaves rings up for grabs to encourage participation of warlords in the Warlord Tournament.
The uppity, snotty act is wearing thin quite quickly.
Arane Ganderfald
Date: 19 Apr 2002 21:05:42 EDT
Drey,
There is nothing in the rules that says that this is forbidden. While the rules clearly do not sanction such a match, they do not outlaw it either. Therefore, deeming it "illegal" is, at the very least, poor word choice.
You have no say in what matches officials call in their spare time just as you have no say in what goes on in their personal lives. If Destre wished to tally points in a match between two bums in an alley, who are you to tell her that she is not allowed?
Simply because something is not specifically laid out in the rules, does not mean that doing it is illegal. These are unofficial matches that serve a purpose for those participating.
These matches get barons into the ring and keep them in top form, giving the barons more chances to influence their ranks. It also leaves rings up for grabs to encourage participation of warlords in the Warlord Tournament.
The uppity, snotty act is wearing thin quite quickly.
Arane Ganderfald
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From: itharrx@aol.com (Itharrx)
Date: 19 Apr 2002 21:39:13 EDT
I didn't think there was anything illegal going on. Thanks for clearing that up everyone.
Ith
Date: 19 Apr 2002 21:39:13 EDT
I didn't think there was anything illegal going on. Thanks for clearing that up everyone.
Ith
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 20 Apr 2002 00:22:36 EDT
>You have no say in what matches officials call in their spare time just as
>you have no say in what goes on in their personal lives.
Does it look like I am trying to stop anything from happening? And Baron's rings aren't personal, mind you.
>If Destre wished to tally points in a match between two bums in an alley, who
>are you to tell her that she is not allowed?
That situation is completely different.
> While the rules clearly do not sanction such a match, they do not outlaw it
>either.
The definition of illegal:
Not lawful; not sanctioned by official rules.
I believe not sanctioning a rule is a part of being illegal. If the speed limit is 70, that doesn't mean you can go 20. Boxers don't go behind the sports back with an official referee and suddenly have a bout over the heavy weight belt of the world the other guy has. That is, I believe, outlawed.
The rings may mean nothing to you because you've never held one, but they do to other people.
>The uppity, snotty act is wearing thin quite quickly.
When I see you, I'm going to butcher you.
- Starke
Date: 20 Apr 2002 00:22:36 EDT
>You have no say in what matches officials call in their spare time just as
>you have no say in what goes on in their personal lives.
Does it look like I am trying to stop anything from happening? And Baron's rings aren't personal, mind you.
>If Destre wished to tally points in a match between two bums in an alley, who
>are you to tell her that she is not allowed?
That situation is completely different.
> While the rules clearly do not sanction such a match, they do not outlaw it
>either.
The definition of illegal:
Not lawful; not sanctioned by official rules.
I believe not sanctioning a rule is a part of being illegal. If the speed limit is 70, that doesn't mean you can go 20. Boxers don't go behind the sports back with an official referee and suddenly have a bout over the heavy weight belt of the world the other guy has. That is, I believe, outlawed.
The rings may mean nothing to you because you've never held one, but they do to other people.
>The uppity, snotty act is wearing thin quite quickly.
When I see you, I'm going to butcher you.
- Starke
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 20 Apr 2002 00:41:27 EDT
Oh, and another thing. Since Baron's rings are worth nothing, and you can easily just "toss" it over to the Warlord's Tournament...
Why doesn't the Overlord just opt for the samething? I mean, hes not gettin' all that much action.
Oh, I guess it wouldn't be as honorable as throwing a Baron's ring away.
Hm.
- Starke
Date: 20 Apr 2002 00:41:27 EDT
Oh, and another thing. Since Baron's rings are worth nothing, and you can easily just "toss" it over to the Warlord's Tournament...
Why doesn't the Overlord just opt for the samething? I mean, hes not gettin' all that much action.
Oh, I guess it wouldn't be as honorable as throwing a Baron's ring away.
Hm.
- Starke
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From: araneganderfald@aol.com (Arane Ganderfald)
Date: 20 Apr 2002 09:58:09 EDT
"The definition of illegal:
Not lawful; not sanctioned by official rules."
Throw out whatever dictionary you pulled that from immediately. That is a very poor definition that any of my lawyers would simply laugh at.
For example, dueling after hours in the Arena is not sanctioned by the rules of DoS. Does this mean that anyone who has ever dueled after hours has committed an act that is illegal? You yourself did that many times when you first came to the Arena.
Another example, if I am playing a board game with my children and the rules do not specifically say that I may stand and get a drink of water when it is not my turn, does that mean that I'm not allowed to?
Unofficial dueling is not illegal. Retiring a ring is not illegal. That is all that went on here. No ring changed hands. It was simply retired.
I do not know much about speeding or driving in general. However, I'd assume that people were ticketed for doing far under the speed limit then there must be a law against it. I have yet to hear of a democratic justice system where people were allowed to be punished for things that there were not specific rules and regulations against.
"Boxers don't go behind the sports back with an official referee and suddenly have a bout over the heavy weight belt of the world the other guy has."
This analogy has no place in your argument because it has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Had Cletus lost to Elijah and given Elijah the ring as the Baron of the Ninth, then this would be against the rules because the rules specifically outline how challenges must be conducted. However, this was not a challenge. While I do not know much about boxing either, had the boxer been forced to retire his title after the unofficial match instead of
handing it over to the other boxer, I believe that it would be legal
You cannot force someone to not retire if they wish to retire a ring. The rules make provisions for what to do with retired rings.
"The rings may mean nothing to you because you've never held one, but they do to other people"
How sad that you must revert to this argument. How do you not know that the rings have more value to me because I have not held one many times as some barons have? If I was a poor girl who had never had a piece of jewelry, a diamond ring would be far more precious to me than a rich woman who had many.
"When I see you, I'm going to butcher you."
How typical of you, Drey. When all your arguments are torn down for their many inherent weaknesses, there is nothing left to you but violence. I'm truly terrified.
Arane Nausikaa Ganderfald
Date: 20 Apr 2002 09:58:09 EDT
"The definition of illegal:
Not lawful; not sanctioned by official rules."
Throw out whatever dictionary you pulled that from immediately. That is a very poor definition that any of my lawyers would simply laugh at.
For example, dueling after hours in the Arena is not sanctioned by the rules of DoS. Does this mean that anyone who has ever dueled after hours has committed an act that is illegal? You yourself did that many times when you first came to the Arena.
Another example, if I am playing a board game with my children and the rules do not specifically say that I may stand and get a drink of water when it is not my turn, does that mean that I'm not allowed to?
Unofficial dueling is not illegal. Retiring a ring is not illegal. That is all that went on here. No ring changed hands. It was simply retired.
I do not know much about speeding or driving in general. However, I'd assume that people were ticketed for doing far under the speed limit then there must be a law against it. I have yet to hear of a democratic justice system where people were allowed to be punished for things that there were not specific rules and regulations against.
"Boxers don't go behind the sports back with an official referee and suddenly have a bout over the heavy weight belt of the world the other guy has."
This analogy has no place in your argument because it has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Had Cletus lost to Elijah and given Elijah the ring as the Baron of the Ninth, then this would be against the rules because the rules specifically outline how challenges must be conducted. However, this was not a challenge. While I do not know much about boxing either, had the boxer been forced to retire his title after the unofficial match instead of
handing it over to the other boxer, I believe that it would be legal
You cannot force someone to not retire if they wish to retire a ring. The rules make provisions for what to do with retired rings.
"The rings may mean nothing to you because you've never held one, but they do to other people"
How sad that you must revert to this argument. How do you not know that the rings have more value to me because I have not held one many times as some barons have? If I was a poor girl who had never had a piece of jewelry, a diamond ring would be far more precious to me than a rich woman who had many.
"When I see you, I'm going to butcher you."
How typical of you, Drey. When all your arguments are torn down for their many inherent weaknesses, there is nothing left to you but violence. I'm truly terrified.
Arane Nausikaa Ganderfald