Alignment of the Seventh

[DoS Archive]

From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 15:38:39 EDT

Fellow duelers~

Why must we always turn Challenge matches into a circus? It matters not. Those that are important to the situation know the truth. The rest of us can only speculate and argue pointlessly.

~Sidartha Elgarette

[DoS Archive]

From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 17:56:00 EDT

Sid,
I, personally, am not intending to turn it into a circus. I am intending to encourage people to follow the rules, no matter how petty they seem to others.
Like I've said, if we allow Ecore to bend the rules a little bit, then others will seek to bend the rules.

Simply,

Var Medici-Giovanni

¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯

¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯

¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯

[DoS Archive]

From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 18:32:34 EDT

Those that are important to the situation know the truth.

Sid, ya imply only da Baron, challenger, and standings keeper are important in a challenge situation. I would argue our WHOLE community is important because our Overlord and barons represent da sport in its entirety. I find no fault if challenges are called inta question, nor should Elijah. If he did no wrong, nothing will come of da accusations. If he did indeed challenge wrongfully, actions can and *should* be taken.

Elijah's claims of "just challenge me" aren't valid if indeed he did not become baron legally in da first place. I'm not sying he's right or wrong, I'm just supporting any of our community who wishes ta contest his match. Certainly da inquiry is harmless, if he committed no crime, no?


~Jeffrey Oakenshield~
Senior Baron of DoS

[DoS Archive]

From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 18:50:10 EDT

A. I never bent the rules, either in the first tourney of nine barons or my last challenge for baron.

B. I said I looked at the Standings, dated 6/8/99, to get all the proper mailing addresses of the Baron's Council the morning of my sixth anniversary of dueling, 6/9/99, when I wrote the challenge and sent it via courier. Never did I say I looked at the Standings on the 8th, but rather the Standings dated the 8th, but I did say which day it was I did look at them.

C. My Denials while in some people's view may seem untrue or a lie, are the trueth as I know the facts being a participant. While some people's Accusations, a.k.a Jonalyn, are based off their feelings for me and how they can manipulate what they think they know into a lobbying point for the populace to rally against me, is something everyone should keep in mind. When I am wrong I admit it, apologize for it, and try to make ammends for it.
Otherwise, even stubbornly, I shall stand firm by what I say and what I believe, whichever side you pick is your decision and I really don't care in the end all.

D. I don't really care who in the Swords community likes me or respects me, I am not here for you, but I am here for me. That being selfish in that I wish to enjoy myself in spars and drinking with comrades, and maybe some flirting fun in between brews and bouts is fine with me. I have given up being involved in Houses or other organizations, especially political organizations. While I still believe in what I believe and have certain opinions on
how things should be around here, that haven't changed since the first duel I had in these rings, I am no longer championing those causes. However, I am a firm believer, even preacher, of duelers at least following the written rule, I practice what I preach. While I am here and part of the community I will act as I desire to which end of dueling, drinking, flirting, and speaking my views. While personally, I am not the greatest person around, when
it comes to the rings there is nothing I am more serious and at least, IMHO, trying to be more positive about, then the Swords Community when I travel RhyDin.

You can take my words for what you will, I however, at least within the Swords community am willing to put my blade where my mouth is, though not always successful, I at least endevor to live by the standards of this sport. The judgement of one, and those who would take what they have to say as worth much, when they have never put their blade where their mouth is not one I care if they favor me or not. However, the time has come for me to stand
up finally, and say enough.

Jonalyn, I challenge you to come for my ring. I want to see you for once put your blade where your mouth is. I want to see you and me in the ring when your a qualified warlord with your peer wins challenge me for Baron, and settle this once and for all in a Duel of Honor. I do not denounce your value to this community, nor the history you have witnessed from the bar, for once why don't you come make history. Until you are willing to try the
experience yourself of trying to become a title holder in Swords, your words and judgement on what makes a title holder, how a title holder should act, and what people do to become title holders means nothing to me until you've put your blade where your mouth has been for years for once.

The Gauntlet has been thrown, the conditions only left to be set and time for you to become qualified. Until such time you answer this challenge, I have nothing left to say to you, Jonalyn, upon these boards or in the Arena.


~Ecore~

~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~

~Guardian of the Seventh Baron Ring of Swords~

[DoS Archive]

From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 18:51:43 EDT

Jeffy~

The thing is, if there were no attacks on his honor and integrity, it certainly *would* be harmless. If someone simply inquired as to the legality of the Challenge, rather than accusing Elijah of intentional sabotage an lying, there would be no problem. Why must anyone sit around and allow people to accuse them of highway robbery before getting the official judgement?

Anyway, to make a long story short, inquiries are one thing..downright finger-pointing and namecalling is another.

~Sidartha

[DoS Archive]

From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 19:14:30 EDT

Senior Baron Oakenshield,

I find nothing wrong with inquiry to my challenge for it will only prove my words. I find fault in the motivations and accuasations of another using this event as a catalyst for their own personal agendas against me. If you desire, I suggest you investigate the matter yourself as a representative of the Baron's Council. The community knows we hold no love for each other, however, I am placing my trust in you as the Senior Baron of Swords, to
discover the trueth yourself and inform the community publically yourself.

You know when I sent my challenge letter to Daelin because you were included on that delivery as per tradition, being a member of the Baron's Council. You also know when Gryphn verified my peer wins, as well I am sure you can find out when the standings were availible to be viewed by the general public. You read the rules, you gather the evidence, and you can either present it to the Baron's Council to vote on guilty or not guilty, or present it
before the community as you desire.

My only statement on behalf of my defense is the following. I wrote my challenge to Daelin Dragonsblade the morning of the 9th, and sent it via courier in the dawning hours of the 9th of June this season. It was the Standings dated the 8th of this same month of my challenge that I used to gather the proper mailing addresses of the Baron's Council, including the fact I knew who to address it because of who just won Baron though not yet reported in
those same Standings, because I asked the results from comrades to insure I had the right individuals informed. I viewed those standings right before I sent the courier out as addressing the Issue of Challenge was my last task before having it delivered. I wrote my challenge and was sitting in the Arena when I went to view the Standings right before sending the courier off with his services.

If I am found guilty of an illegal challenge, then I shall accept whatever punishment the Baron's Council desires to levy against me, if they desire to even consider the issue. I am not opposed to any of it, and stand by my words. Otherwise, I have no further comment on the issue as it regards to me.

~Ecore~

~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~

~Guardian of the Seventh Baron Ring of Swords~

[DoS Archive]

From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 19:35:16 EDT

"A challenge is not considered complete until the results are posted in the Standings." -Universal Terms of Challenge

Perhaps Ecore did send out his challenge notice before the Standings were publically displayed, and ran the risk that the peer win he was sure of receiving would not be included, but nowhere in the Rules does it state that these notices must be sent precisely after the Standings are up. If so, his idea may have been to send the notice late enough in expectance of official posting at the time, or before, the Standing's keeper received it.
Otherwise, there is another argument...

In the above quote, challenges are not "complete until the results are posted in the Standings," a fulfillment verified by the Standings keeper. She may choose not to "complete" the challenge, or verify the peer wins("...all challenges must be answered within one week of validation..."), until a later time when the necessary Standings are posted. The lack of specifics in the Terms allows for much leeway.

An opinion, yes, but the author felt that no one should be acknowledged, praised, nor scrutinized for an exercise in common sense, and left the missive unsigned.

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 20:40:34 EDT

Elijah

Thee count thineself much too highly. I simply inquired of Master Evermeadow the precise time and date that the standings became public. Thou protest overmuch, Elijah, ast ist yuir wont. Thee declare thineself accused. How utterly self centered of thee. Ast to mine feelings about thee, Elijah, think thee I wouldna question anna what issued challenge ast thee did? Thee again set thineself much too high, Elijah. Tis nae thee I question atall,
but anna what hae placed challenge in a manner that ist questionable.

The issue challenge unto me? A laughable though expected reaction, much ast that of the perfidious Baroness, Jaycynda Ashleana. I hae nae annathing ta prove, Elijah, though if thine memory hae nae utterly failed thee, thee hae yet ta best mine blade in the ring. Tis a shame thee truly dinna stick thine blade where thine mouth is and perhaps chew on it a bit.

Tis so like thee, Elijah, ta consider only thineself in the scheme 'o things. Ast much ast thee may wish ta deny the taint upon thine first holding of a Baron's ring, tis it stands ast being fact, one ye ne'er denied, that eve nor when the notices were placed upon this verra cork. Do spare us, if thee please, History according to Elijah. Thee wish a duel of Honor? Mine honor isna in question and certes nae by thee.

Amusedly
Jonalyn Starfare

[DoS Archive]

From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 20:50:11 EDT

"I don't really care who in the Swords community likes me or respects me, I am not here for you, but I am here for me."

Elijah, how can ya truely stand by yer statement when ya vehemently post ta defend yer honor and integrity? Why are Jonalyn's posts so stinging if ye don't care what she or anyone else belives about ya. If yer sure ya followed every rule of DoS, challenged fairly, and deserve yer ring; why is it important DoS as a community also believes such? It seems a bit ironic ye defend yerself so staunchly, yet turn around and act apathetic towards DoS'
opinion of ya.

"While I am here and part of the community I will act as I desire to which end of dueling, drinking, flirting, and speaking my views."

Why speak yer views if ya don't care whether we accept or reject 'em? If yer truely here fer yerself and solely yerself, why are our opinions so important, why do you even care if we hold yer values?

"Jonalyn, I challenge you to come for my ring. I want to see you for once put your blade where your mouth is. I want to see you and me in the ring when your a qualified warlord with your peer wins challenge me for Baron, and settle this once and for all in a Duel of Honor."

Why don't ya challenge Jona ta a duel of logic or wit. It is convient ta challenge a commoner ta come fer yer ring when ya are well aware in her many years Jonalyn has not aspired ta such. Unlike you, Jonalyn does not settle her grudges with a blade, why should she have ta? Certainly a verbal argument would be a forum both of ya could compete in, immediately. However, having talked ta Jonalyn, I know she offered a challenge before which ye
declined, so certainly ye could not fault her if she chose da same path now.

"Until you are willing to try the
experience yourself of trying to become a title holder in Swords, your words and judgement on what makes a title holder, how a title holder should act, and what people do to become title holders means nothing to me"

Would ya claim I have no bearing or valid opinion on how a Overlord should act, simply because I've never challenged fer Overlord? Ya have never claimed da title either, are yer opinions of Overlord automatically invalid? I would have no problem at all supporting a claim dat Jonalyn knows very much what it is ta be a baron, simply from her conversations with countless ring holders in DoS.

Finally, as ta yer request dat I investigate da matter, I cannot do so. I no longer have yer original letter of challenge, which would have a date and time stamped upon it from da Rhydin post offices. Certainly, if I had such evidence either supporting or refuting yer claims ta a legal challenge, I would bring it forward and end da argument immediately.

~J

[DoS Archive]

From: qxz137@aol.com (QXZ137)
Date: 18 Jun 1999 21:05:11 EDT

<<Thou protest overmuch, Elijah,>>
::Points to the board and shouts, "Heh, look what Jonalyn wrote!"::

[DoS Archive]

From: cyggnimoi@aol.com (Cyg Gnimoi)
Date: 19 Jun 1999 10:16:57 EDT

Good people of the Swords,

It seems to me that the only fair and equitable way for the standings to be considered "official", would be those standings officially secured upon the public cork for all to see.

If two duelists were to be in consideration of a challenge for the same ring, it would be most crucial that the official standings notice be made public upon the cork, so as to give all a fair shot at getting their challenge request in first with an acurate and timely date stamp.

It does not seem unreasonable to see why the posted standings upon the public cork are indeed parmount to fair challenges being made.


In Grace,
Cygnet Gnimoi

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 19 Jun 1999 15:57:47 EDT

Baron Jeffrey Oakenshield

Perhaps another member of the council hast one of the missives.

Jona

[DoS Archive]

From: taylara@aol.com (Taylara)
Date: 20 Jun 1999 03:49:36 EDT

::Peruses the controversy and considers the opinions::
I wouldst 'ave ta agree with Jona, Var, and Jeff...ta name a few.
If the written notice of Challenge was sent ta early, then the Challenge should be void. We 'ave rules that satte that the Official Standings must be posted ta the public when a Challenge is issued.
But arguing on this cork will nae get the truth of the matter. I be sure there be a way ta verify these things ifn one looks hard enough.
~Tay~

[DoS Archive]

From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 20 Jun 1999 11:33:43 EDT

Tay,

I agree with Jeff, Jona, and Var, too when ti comes to their opinion if something was done wrong then something should be done about it. In my case, nothing was done wrong.


~Ecore~

~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~

~Guardian of the Seventh Baron Ring of Swords~

[DoS Archive]

From: karnafexx@aol.com (Karnafexx)
Date: 20 Jun 1999 12:31:55 EDT


<<Sid,
I, personally, am not intending to turn it into a circus.

Var. >>

Swears he sees Var jump into a miniature car stuffed with 20 guys with smiley faces and big shoes.

~Levity