From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 18:33:59 EDT
>>When the prize was on the line he failed and I succeeded. And yet you don't even test him to prove his worth to hold the ring again, but just hand it over as if his loss never happened.<<
This is a tough call, folks. If the council ruled against Ecore, then he shouldn't have th ring. However, I have to say, that Daelin simply being given the ring back after losing a challenge (which was believed valid by all at the time, whatever turned out to be the truth later) is somewhat ridiculous. Daelin should probably duel a Baron chosen by the council for the ring. Ecore, however, should abide by the decison if stripped of the ring.
Despite my friendship with Daelin, however, it seems there is something wrong with just giving the ring back to a Baron who lost a challenge match. No offense to Daelin here. No one, in case of dispute such as this, should simply be handed a ring without a fight after losing it.
If the argument is advanced that because of the invalid peer wins, the challenge never happened, that is somewhat silly. The invalid peer wins were not caught when they should have been if the challenge was to be nulled. If they had been spotted before the duel, then the challenge could have been refused legitimately. Now we are presented with a situation where none of the choices are right.
The best would have been to null Elijah's challenge and make Daelin duel for the ring. Simply to preserve the integrity of the duels. This is a sport of dueling after all. A situation where an invalid challenge proceeds and the challenger wins creates a difficult muddle, true. However, when the officials allow such an event to proceed then the sport must deal with the consequences of the results, not pretend it never happened.
Ecore should not wear the ring, no. However, this situation is not his fault. He saw the standings up, and then they were not up later. There have been situations before, caused by various circumstances, where the standings have been posted and then removed and later reposted.
The council, apparently, has ruled. The ruling will stand, of course. However, I find it interesting that another council has made a decision against an unpopular personage without considering the consequences of their actions.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Petition for reinstatement of Title/Rank
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 18:36:14 EDT
>>My reference to Jonalyn, was to the effect she doesn't even duel, period, in the Arena of Swords.<<
I am friend of Jonalyn's. Some would say I was the opposite. However, it must be said that while her skill can be debated, she does duel. People do not gain the rank of swordsman by not dueling. The end of this particular discussion.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 23 Jun 1999 18:36:14 EDT
>>My reference to Jonalyn, was to the effect she doesn't even duel, period, in the Arena of Swords.<<
I am friend of Jonalyn's. Some would say I was the opposite. However, it must be said that while her skill can be debated, she does duel. People do not gain the rank of swordsman by not dueling. The end of this particular discussion.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 18:48:50 EDT
>>My reference to Jonalyn, was to the effect she doesn't even duel, period, in the Arena of Swords.<<
As someone told me, when I was arguing that it was wrong to punish Huma when Dalamar forfeited a match and I quoted precedents of other forfeitures by challengers and title holders, the Baronial Council is 'not ruled by precedent, each case is evaluated independently.' No doubt someone else will say this now.
Personally, I believe this whole situation mismanaged. An invalid challenge should not have been allowed to proceed, and a challenge that was allowed to proceed must be considered to have at least a modicum of validity, as it was given such by the officials. However, I strongly doubt that anyone will take any steps to rectify the situation. The system works fairly simply. When decisions are presented to the council then the result will generally be
that the ruling will be in the favor of the individual more popular with the council.
There is no system of precedent, it would seem, in the council's decisions. Expecting such now would be a mistake, and a naive one at that. Some Barons try to be fair, others are motivated by their loyalties or enimities, and the result reached is somewhat unpredictable even when logic seems to dictate an answer, as the past has proved.
However, whether the council was right or wrong, it has ruled. Ecore, stop your whining. Those of you who feel the need to argue with him, cease your attacks. The issue has been settled.
Sometimes I seriously think that DoS needs proctors like a school playground.
The White Duke
Date: 23 Jun 1999 18:48:50 EDT
>>My reference to Jonalyn, was to the effect she doesn't even duel, period, in the Arena of Swords.<<
As someone told me, when I was arguing that it was wrong to punish Huma when Dalamar forfeited a match and I quoted precedents of other forfeitures by challengers and title holders, the Baronial Council is 'not ruled by precedent, each case is evaluated independently.' No doubt someone else will say this now.
Personally, I believe this whole situation mismanaged. An invalid challenge should not have been allowed to proceed, and a challenge that was allowed to proceed must be considered to have at least a modicum of validity, as it was given such by the officials. However, I strongly doubt that anyone will take any steps to rectify the situation. The system works fairly simply. When decisions are presented to the council then the result will generally be
that the ruling will be in the favor of the individual more popular with the council.
There is no system of precedent, it would seem, in the council's decisions. Expecting such now would be a mistake, and a naive one at that. Some Barons try to be fair, others are motivated by their loyalties or enimities, and the result reached is somewhat unpredictable even when logic seems to dictate an answer, as the past has proved.
However, whether the council was right or wrong, it has ruled. Ecore, stop your whining. Those of you who feel the need to argue with him, cease your attacks. The issue has been settled.
Sometimes I seriously think that DoS needs proctors like a school playground.
The White Duke
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:07:11 EDT
Tacks an addendum to the cork.
Gentles,
Indeed I do 'pon occasion dance the dance of steel. Mine most recent trouncing wast at the hands and scimitar of the quiet warlord, Roustam, upon the thirtieth day of the fifth month. Prior to that dance, I didst wield chocolate and other confections agin the Senior Baron, Jeffrey Oakenshield, and though managing to smear the Baron's attire abit, I wast most soundly spanked and didst drip more than a fair amount 'o gooey confections ast I didst slog
mine way out 'o the ring. I sent a missive unto Madame Silvertree requesting removal of mine name from the current standings lists to keep the record accurate. I hae nae lifted blade in the basement since that dance with the quiet warlord.
Keirin, I do thank thee for thine kind words, tis noble of thee.
Jona
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:07:11 EDT
Tacks an addendum to the cork.
Gentles,
Indeed I do 'pon occasion dance the dance of steel. Mine most recent trouncing wast at the hands and scimitar of the quiet warlord, Roustam, upon the thirtieth day of the fifth month. Prior to that dance, I didst wield chocolate and other confections agin the Senior Baron, Jeffrey Oakenshield, and though managing to smear the Baron's attire abit, I wast most soundly spanked and didst drip more than a fair amount 'o gooey confections ast I didst slog
mine way out 'o the ring. I sent a missive unto Madame Silvertree requesting removal of mine name from the current standings lists to keep the record accurate. I hae nae lifted blade in the basement since that dance with the quiet warlord.
Keirin, I do thank thee for thine kind words, tis noble of thee.
Jona
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:22:13 EDT
E,
You'd be best to just give up trying to show anybody around here anypoint you could ever have, or had. I found a long time ago that once they set thier minds to something, they will not deviate from the simple thoughts.
People around here just have no tolerance for people who change thier minds. People who make a mistake...they hang them. Well, almost everybody who makes a mistake....but I won't go into that.
What I think E, save yourself the trouble and sweep it under the carpet. The council thinks they can do no wrong, so...chin up and say "to hell with 'em."
Huma
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:22:13 EDT
E,
You'd be best to just give up trying to show anybody around here anypoint you could ever have, or had. I found a long time ago that once they set thier minds to something, they will not deviate from the simple thoughts.
People around here just have no tolerance for people who change thier minds. People who make a mistake...they hang them. Well, almost everybody who makes a mistake....but I won't go into that.
What I think E, save yourself the trouble and sweep it under the carpet. The council thinks they can do no wrong, so...chin up and say "to hell with 'em."
Huma
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From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:32:41 EDT
>My reference to Jonalyn, was to the effect she doesn't even duel, period, in
>the Arena of Swords.
As has been mentioned more than a few times here, Jona does duel, albeit infrequently. She held the rank of Swordsman not too terribly long ago and currently is in the standings dated 6/8/99 as a commoner... Although for some reason her rank isn't listed in the two weeks after that. I would assume that to be a simple clerical error, however. As has been said as well.... You don't gain that by not lifting the blade in the rings.
>IF you duel, you have a voice.
That's a rather simpleminded statement, E... one that I wouldn't expect from one that is so entrenched in the history of the rings. Such a disappointment.
Khrys
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:32:41 EDT
>My reference to Jonalyn, was to the effect she doesn't even duel, period, in
>the Arena of Swords.
As has been mentioned more than a few times here, Jona does duel, albeit infrequently. She held the rank of Swordsman not too terribly long ago and currently is in the standings dated 6/8/99 as a commoner... Although for some reason her rank isn't listed in the two weeks after that. I would assume that to be a simple clerical error, however. As has been said as well.... You don't gain that by not lifting the blade in the rings.
>IF you duel, you have a voice.
That's a rather simpleminded statement, E... one that I wouldn't expect from one that is so entrenched in the history of the rings. Such a disappointment.
Khrys
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From: xdemcyrax@aol.com (X DemCyrax)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:48:26 EDT
Why don't ya just fine him 10,000 gold pieces and slap him on the wrist?
Dem
Date: 23 Jun 1999 19:48:26 EDT
Why don't ya just fine him 10,000 gold pieces and slap him on the wrist?
Dem
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:03:03 EDT
I say again, how many times must there be misunderstandings over what time the standings were put up before challenges stopped getting fouled up over mere hours?
I have yet to see a word rise up above this cacophany of mudslinging to question the policies concerning the posting of the standings on the wall. Why is this? Are you all so eager to jump on Elijah's back over a mistake that happened *once* to simply ignore the handfull of times Challenges have been ruined over miscommunication? Are you all so afraid of gaining Golden's ire to at least question him on the matter?
Yes, Elijah made a mistake in retiring his ring before he heard from the Council. It's done, finished. It's time to move on. Let's start by working on something to make sure that mistakes can be more readily prevented, so that such a situation as this doesn't *have* to happen again.
Pleadingly,
~Sidartha Elgarette
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:03:03 EDT
I say again, how many times must there be misunderstandings over what time the standings were put up before challenges stopped getting fouled up over mere hours?
I have yet to see a word rise up above this cacophany of mudslinging to question the policies concerning the posting of the standings on the wall. Why is this? Are you all so eager to jump on Elijah's back over a mistake that happened *once* to simply ignore the handfull of times Challenges have been ruined over miscommunication? Are you all so afraid of gaining Golden's ire to at least question him on the matter?
Yes, Elijah made a mistake in retiring his ring before he heard from the Council. It's done, finished. It's time to move on. Let's start by working on something to make sure that mistakes can be more readily prevented, so that such a situation as this doesn't *have* to happen again.
Pleadingly,
~Sidartha Elgarette
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:06:19 EDT
Question...
Sid, how does E's predicament affect you personally?
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:06:19 EDT
Question...
Sid, how does E's predicament affect you personally?
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:15:45 EDT
A few concepts before I go insane,
Sidartha,
I can't believe what I'm reading from you. WE are not harping on Elijah, Elijah keeps posting and crying out for attention, after which we *respond*. Who posted a rant about retirement - Elijah, who posted about reinstatement - Elijah. How can you possibly hold we are jumping on Elijah's back when Elijah is crying out to give free piggy backs.
Elijah,
You are neither a target nor da first ta be ruled in such a way. Off hand I remember one Greg Swordsboy issuing invalid challenge ta Daegarth.
"Daegarth's reign began with a flurry of challenges. The first was put forth by a young samurai named Greg(Swordsboy) but was counted invalid as the peer wins put forth were from a time before the dueler had retired and therefore erased."
I'm sure others have been prevented from obtaining a ring due ta invalid challenge. I have not researched further. Da only difference is, Drakewyn accidently let yer match happen, others were shot down far sooner. Which would you have preferred?
Please cut da poor me crap, its getting sick, and my patience has been run dry. You were *wrong*, you were dealt with, dat's *all*.
~J
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:15:45 EDT
A few concepts before I go insane,
Sidartha,
I can't believe what I'm reading from you. WE are not harping on Elijah, Elijah keeps posting and crying out for attention, after which we *respond*. Who posted a rant about retirement - Elijah, who posted about reinstatement - Elijah. How can you possibly hold we are jumping on Elijah's back when Elijah is crying out to give free piggy backs.
Elijah,
You are neither a target nor da first ta be ruled in such a way. Off hand I remember one Greg Swordsboy issuing invalid challenge ta Daegarth.
"Daegarth's reign began with a flurry of challenges. The first was put forth by a young samurai named Greg(Swordsboy) but was counted invalid as the peer wins put forth were from a time before the dueler had retired and therefore erased."
I'm sure others have been prevented from obtaining a ring due ta invalid challenge. I have not researched further. Da only difference is, Drakewyn accidently let yer match happen, others were shot down far sooner. Which would you have preferred?
Please cut da poor me crap, its getting sick, and my patience has been run dry. You were *wrong*, you were dealt with, dat's *all*.
~J
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:40:56 EDT
Um,
Once I discovered the ruling of the Council I made my response to voice my opinion of the response. I accepted it and am dealing with it, and simply informed the council to stick to what it says at all times. I am not whining about anything or have a poor me attitude, in fact its giving me inspirastion to implement some ideas.
Ecore
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:40:56 EDT
Um,
Once I discovered the ruling of the Council I made my response to voice my opinion of the response. I accepted it and am dealing with it, and simply informed the council to stick to what it says at all times. I am not whining about anything or have a poor me attitude, in fact its giving me inspirastion to implement some ideas.
Ecore
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:49:40 EDT
Ecore,
I'd kindly ask you quit with da "Jeff and company are out ta get me" implications, if you are truely "dealing" with it.
You were not a target, are certainly NOT da first, you are merely suffering for a mistake. Quite simple and certainly not personal.
~J
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:49:40 EDT
Ecore,
I'd kindly ask you quit with da "Jeff and company are out ta get me" implications, if you are truely "dealing" with it.
You were not a target, are certainly NOT da first, you are merely suffering for a mistake. Quite simple and certainly not personal.
~J
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:54:27 EDT
Huma~
It doesn't affect me..yet. However, I'd like to see this problem fixed before the Nine Hells freeze over, which would be when I actually get up to be the rank where I can Challenge.
All joking aside, it doesn't matter who it happened to. Simply the fact that it keeps happening bothers me.
~Sidartha
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:54:27 EDT
Huma~
It doesn't affect me..yet. However, I'd like to see this problem fixed before the Nine Hells freeze over, which would be when I actually get up to be the rank where I can Challenge.
All joking aside, it doesn't matter who it happened to. Simply the fact that it keeps happening bothers me.
~Sidartha
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:58:02 EDT
It happened...it will happen again...period. People make mistakes, and unless your involved with something like this, there's no point in fueling the fire.
Huma
Date: 23 Jun 1999 20:58:02 EDT
It happened...it will happen again...period. People make mistakes, and unless your involved with something like this, there's no point in fueling the fire.
Huma
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From: methous45@aol.com (Methous45)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:01:26 EDT
I agree with Ecore. You should have to walk the path. Before you can judge those who do walk it. She has judged me more than once. I have many crimes yes. But I still walked and do walk the path. It's the duel of swords. Not tongues or voices. The sharper your blade, the better your skill. Not the sharper your tongue, the better your voice.
Meth
True commoner at heart
Member and patron
"He's a warlord again....Yeah"
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:01:26 EDT
I agree with Ecore. You should have to walk the path. Before you can judge those who do walk it. She has judged me more than once. I have many crimes yes. But I still walked and do walk the path. It's the duel of swords. Not tongues or voices. The sharper your blade, the better your skill. Not the sharper your tongue, the better your voice.
Meth
True commoner at heart
Member and patron
"He's a warlord again....Yeah"