From: sartanz@aol.com (Sartan Z)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:09:54 EDT
>
>Why don't ya just fine him 10,000 gold pieces and slap him on the wrist?
::a small reply is attached to the post::
Dalamar had held his title for well over a year when the incident occurred and previously possessed a spotless record for making challenges Dalamar was unable to make that match because of personal reasons and explained as much to the Council as soon as he was able to. The issue at hand here is completely different and to suggest that punishment is simply ridiculous and also insulting to the memory of the reign of the 28th Overlord of the Duel of
Swords.
Sartan
Petition for reinstatement of Title/Rank
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:22:36 EDT
Sartan...deal with it, he broke the rules as well, the same punishment should be delt E that was delt to Dal, if the DoS has any fairness to it at all.
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:22:36 EDT
Sartan...deal with it, he broke the rules as well, the same punishment should be delt E that was delt to Dal, if the DoS has any fairness to it at all.
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From: sartanz@aol.com (Sartan Z)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:37:22 EDT
Ok, Huma, then, any person who steals a loaf of bread should now be given the same punishment as an ax-wielding murderer? These two situations were completely different, saying the punishments dealt should be the same makes no sense to me.
~S
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:37:22 EDT
Ok, Huma, then, any person who steals a loaf of bread should now be given the same punishment as an ax-wielding murderer? These two situations were completely different, saying the punishments dealt should be the same makes no sense to me.
~S
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:45:42 EDT
bread stealer treated the same as a murderer? Sounds good..would cut crime in half now wouldn't it?
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:45:42 EDT
bread stealer treated the same as a murderer? Sounds good..would cut crime in half now wouldn't it?
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From: taylara@aol.com (Taylara)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:51:08 EDT
::Blinks twice reading this one:: Umm..E, I've seen Jona duel on more then one occasion, and that was in the Arena.
~Tay~
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:51:08 EDT
::Blinks twice reading this one:: Umm..E, I've seen Jona duel on more then one occasion, and that was in the Arena.
~Tay~
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:17:07 EDT
>I have yet to see a word rise up above this cacophany of mudslinging to
>question the policies concerning the posting of the standings on the wall.
>Why is this? Are you all so eager to jump on Elijah's back over a mistake
>that happened *once* to simply ignore the handfull of times Challenges have
>been ruined over miscommunication? Are you all so afraid of gaining Golden's
>ire to at least question him on the matter?
What is there to question? Honestly, Sid, what is your opinion as to what there is to question?
Are you saying we should ask what Golden, or the rules mean by "peer wins are not valid unless posted on the standings?" That seems pretty straightforward to me.
The differences between the previous invalid challenges and this one are few, but important:
1) Ecore got caught.
2) The council have chosen to start doing something about it.
What would things be like if Helix didn't make a ruling with Jaycy's challenge? Jaycy wouldn't be holding the third ring. We all know this, for it was GOLDEN who ruled the peer wins and challenge invalid at that time. Helix, the coordinator, overruled it.
I see nothing that should be questioned, especially not Golden. He hasn't done any special favors, and his policies have seemingly been the same.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:17:07 EDT
>I have yet to see a word rise up above this cacophany of mudslinging to
>question the policies concerning the posting of the standings on the wall.
>Why is this? Are you all so eager to jump on Elijah's back over a mistake
>that happened *once* to simply ignore the handfull of times Challenges have
>been ruined over miscommunication? Are you all so afraid of gaining Golden's
>ire to at least question him on the matter?
What is there to question? Honestly, Sid, what is your opinion as to what there is to question?
Are you saying we should ask what Golden, or the rules mean by "peer wins are not valid unless posted on the standings?" That seems pretty straightforward to me.
The differences between the previous invalid challenges and this one are few, but important:
1) Ecore got caught.
2) The council have chosen to start doing something about it.
What would things be like if Helix didn't make a ruling with Jaycy's challenge? Jaycy wouldn't be holding the third ring. We all know this, for it was GOLDEN who ruled the peer wins and challenge invalid at that time. Helix, the coordinator, overruled it.
I see nothing that should be questioned, especially not Golden. He hasn't done any special favors, and his policies have seemingly been the same.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:23:39 EDT
Huma,
If you hadn't dueled and lost ta me, do you really believe Dal would have gotten off so easy? It was because you killed your own chances and I made sure da council saw it dat way. Had you just kept yer ego in check, stead of tryin' ta take my ring, you might have been Overlord or at da very least gotten a match with Dal.
You, like Elijah, dug yer own grave. So stop with da poor me crap, you weren't treated unfairly, you chose yer own path.
~J
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:23:39 EDT
Huma,
If you hadn't dueled and lost ta me, do you really believe Dal would have gotten off so easy? It was because you killed your own chances and I made sure da council saw it dat way. Had you just kept yer ego in check, stead of tryin' ta take my ring, you might have been Overlord or at da very least gotten a match with Dal.
You, like Elijah, dug yer own grave. So stop with da poor me crap, you weren't treated unfairly, you chose yer own path.
~J
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:26:36 EDT
>>What is there to question? Honestly, Sid, what is your opinion as to what there is to question?<<
How about...why is there always so many controversies on when the standings are posted?
>>Are you saying we should ask what Golden, or the rules mean by "peer wins are not valid unless posted on the standings?" That seems pretty straightforward to me.
The differences between the previous invalid challenges and this one are few, but important:
1) Ecore got caught.
2) The council have chosen to start doing something about it.<<
And of course..since Elijah's got "caught", and other invalid challenges didn't, that means that it's alright? Is that it? As long as you don't get "caught" you didn't do anything wrong? Again, if everyone missed it the first two times I expressed this, I am not saying that Elijah is the innocent victim. I am saying there should be something done to prevent such misunderstandings as well as possible.
>>I see nothing that should be questioned, especially not Golden. He hasn't done any special favors, and his policies have seemingly been the same.<<
Exactly. His policy hasn't changed, and this, for one thing, should. There should be some way to make the exact time the standings are posted well known, so there are no questions, and no controversies.
~Sidartha
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:26:36 EDT
>>What is there to question? Honestly, Sid, what is your opinion as to what there is to question?<<
How about...why is there always so many controversies on when the standings are posted?
>>Are you saying we should ask what Golden, or the rules mean by "peer wins are not valid unless posted on the standings?" That seems pretty straightforward to me.
The differences between the previous invalid challenges and this one are few, but important:
1) Ecore got caught.
2) The council have chosen to start doing something about it.<<
And of course..since Elijah's got "caught", and other invalid challenges didn't, that means that it's alright? Is that it? As long as you don't get "caught" you didn't do anything wrong? Again, if everyone missed it the first two times I expressed this, I am not saying that Elijah is the innocent victim. I am saying there should be something done to prevent such misunderstandings as well as possible.
>>I see nothing that should be questioned, especially not Golden. He hasn't done any special favors, and his policies have seemingly been the same.<<
Exactly. His policy hasn't changed, and this, for one thing, should. There should be some way to make the exact time the standings are posted well known, so there are no questions, and no controversies.
~Sidartha
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:38:51 EDT
>How about...why is there always so many controversies on when the standings
>are posted?
>
People just can't deal with what's given them maybe? I don't know.
>And of course..since Elijah's got "caught", and other invalid challenges
>didn't, that means that it's alright? Is that it? As long as you don't get
>"caught" you didn't do anything wrong? Again, if everyone missed it the first
>two times I expressed this, I am not saying that Elijah is the innocent
>victim. I am saying there should be something done to prevent such
>misunderstandings as well as possible.
>
Not getting caught doesn't make it right. You were saying how we were "getting on E's back" and I told you why. He got caught. The others got lucky enough to not get caught, but they'll have things eating at them deep inside when they get older. That's all that can be the punishment of those now; guilt.
That's the gravest punishment of all, as well. Soon, Ecore will at least be able to challenge again. The others will have something eating them up from the inside, and it's something they can never dispose of.
>Exactly. His policy hasn't changed, and this, for one thing, should. There
>should be some way to make the exact time the standings are posted well
>known, so there are no questions, and no controversies.
Golden wrote in his post that he would state the time in which the standings were posted, to the standings keeper. It was in the original missive, if you read it.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:38:51 EDT
>How about...why is there always so many controversies on when the standings
>are posted?
>
People just can't deal with what's given them maybe? I don't know.
>And of course..since Elijah's got "caught", and other invalid challenges
>didn't, that means that it's alright? Is that it? As long as you don't get
>"caught" you didn't do anything wrong? Again, if everyone missed it the first
>two times I expressed this, I am not saying that Elijah is the innocent
>victim. I am saying there should be something done to prevent such
>misunderstandings as well as possible.
>
Not getting caught doesn't make it right. You were saying how we were "getting on E's back" and I told you why. He got caught. The others got lucky enough to not get caught, but they'll have things eating at them deep inside when they get older. That's all that can be the punishment of those now; guilt.
That's the gravest punishment of all, as well. Soon, Ecore will at least be able to challenge again. The others will have something eating them up from the inside, and it's something they can never dispose of.
>Exactly. His policy hasn't changed, and this, for one thing, should. There
>should be some way to make the exact time the standings are posted well
>known, so there are no questions, and no controversies.
Golden wrote in his post that he would state the time in which the standings were posted, to the standings keeper. It was in the original missive, if you read it.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:46:36 EDT
>Dalamar had held his title for well over a year when the incident occurred
>and previously possessed a spotless record for making challenges
Sartan,
What does holding the title for over a year have to do with anything? Thing is, he still broke the rules, regardless of the reason. Doesn't matter that he had a spotless record, it has to be spotless sometime. I just don't see why you had to bring that up. Both broke the rules in some way.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:46:36 EDT
>Dalamar had held his title for well over a year when the incident occurred
>and previously possessed a spotless record for making challenges
Sartan,
What does holding the title for over a year have to do with anything? Thing is, he still broke the rules, regardless of the reason. Doesn't matter that he had a spotless record, it has to be spotless sometime. I just don't see why you had to bring that up. Both broke the rules in some way.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
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From: marzan@aol.com (Marzan)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 23:03:44 EDT
~~
I think both sides on this issue would do well to recognize the worth in both their arguments.
One hand, you have the Barons making a tough, impartial decision, despite the flak when the task was set upon their shoulders.
On the other hand, Elijah always flies by the seat of his pants, and is fun to watch. I think his challenge idea was kind of cool. It could have been a fun, interesting spectacle for the masses.
Truly the Barons showed levels of Virtue, as well as Elijah certain levels of excitement.
~~Blessings of Twilight~~
ArchMage of Magic
29th Overlord of Swords
Tenth Diamond of Fists
Date: 23 Jun 1999 23:03:44 EDT
~~
I think both sides on this issue would do well to recognize the worth in both their arguments.
One hand, you have the Barons making a tough, impartial decision, despite the flak when the task was set upon their shoulders.
On the other hand, Elijah always flies by the seat of his pants, and is fun to watch. I think his challenge idea was kind of cool. It could have been a fun, interesting spectacle for the masses.
Truly the Barons showed levels of Virtue, as well as Elijah certain levels of excitement.
~~Blessings of Twilight~~
ArchMage of Magic
29th Overlord of Swords
Tenth Diamond of Fists
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 23 Jun 1999 23:15:29 EDT
Magnus,
Perhaps you don't like Sartan's justification but we DO have two different situations. Dalamar was unable ta make his match because his father died and he had ta attend a funeral. Elijah didn't even have a challenge ta begin with because his bona fides (peer wins) were invalid. Dalamar's match was legal, however a bit more complicated penalty wise. Elijah is clearly wrong, clearly shouldn't be a baron, da only complication fer our council was
what ta do about Daelin.
Two very different situations, one involved absense on a set date, da other an completely invalid challenge.
~J
Date: 23 Jun 1999 23:15:29 EDT
Magnus,
Perhaps you don't like Sartan's justification but we DO have two different situations. Dalamar was unable ta make his match because his father died and he had ta attend a funeral. Elijah didn't even have a challenge ta begin with because his bona fides (peer wins) were invalid. Dalamar's match was legal, however a bit more complicated penalty wise. Elijah is clearly wrong, clearly shouldn't be a baron, da only complication fer our council was
what ta do about Daelin.
Two very different situations, one involved absense on a set date, da other an completely invalid challenge.
~J
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:02:38 EDT
Jeff,
I do not wish to jump on your back, but I never said the two were alike in any way. I am not sure whether you fully read my post or not, but I only said that both involved the breaking of the rules. I had always thought one should be required to show for a challenge match, unless this is not a rule. I thought it was however. I know very well that these two situations are different.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:02:38 EDT
Jeff,
I do not wish to jump on your back, but I never said the two were alike in any way. I am not sure whether you fully read my post or not, but I only said that both involved the breaking of the rules. I had always thought one should be required to show for a challenge match, unless this is not a rule. I thought it was however. I know very well that these two situations are different.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
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From: goldendust@aol.com (Goldendust)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:14:52 EDT
>I have yet to see a word rise up above this cacophany of mudslinging to
>question the policies concerning the posting of the standings on the wall.
Folks,
Considering my policies have been brought into question, I will explain them. I realize and admit that the methods in which the standings are posted and the time it is done is not foolproof. Mistakes have been made in the past, a mistake has just been made, and I'm certain more will be made in the future. I accept the fault for allowing this situation to happen, I should have realized it's potential and acted to prevent it long ago. However, the
lesson has been learned.
As stated in my previous post, steps have already been taken to ensure a similar instance like this does not take place. Now, each time the standings are posted, I send a note to Lady Drakewyn and give her the date and time in which the standings were tacked up, to the exact minute. A simple step like this, which should have been thought of earlier, will prevent future situations similar to this one.
I realize this may mean little to Ecore, Daelin, and others right now. I do offer my apologies to them for letting this happen.
On another note, I have given the Council of Barons the opportunity to resume discussion of this matter if they see fit. If they chose not to and stick with their original decision, then I will make that decision known to the public immediately. Thank you for your time.
Golden Evermeadow
Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:14:52 EDT
>I have yet to see a word rise up above this cacophany of mudslinging to
>question the policies concerning the posting of the standings on the wall.
Folks,
Considering my policies have been brought into question, I will explain them. I realize and admit that the methods in which the standings are posted and the time it is done is not foolproof. Mistakes have been made in the past, a mistake has just been made, and I'm certain more will be made in the future. I accept the fault for allowing this situation to happen, I should have realized it's potential and acted to prevent it long ago. However, the
lesson has been learned.
As stated in my previous post, steps have already been taken to ensure a similar instance like this does not take place. Now, each time the standings are posted, I send a note to Lady Drakewyn and give her the date and time in which the standings were tacked up, to the exact minute. A simple step like this, which should have been thought of earlier, will prevent future situations similar to this one.
I realize this may mean little to Ecore, Daelin, and others right now. I do offer my apologies to them for letting this happen.
On another note, I have given the Council of Barons the opportunity to resume discussion of this matter if they see fit. If they chose not to and stick with their original decision, then I will make that decision known to the public immediately. Thank you for your time.
Golden Evermeadow
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:23:26 EDT
Goldendust,
You are doing to the best of your ability to maintain the integrity of the sport. I appreciate your swift action to make sure a mistake like this doesn't happen again.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:23:26 EDT
Goldendust,
You are doing to the best of your ability to maintain the integrity of the sport. I appreciate your swift action to make sure a mistake like this doesn't happen again.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯