From: valmion@aol.com (Valmion)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 09:04:02 EDT
Lords, ladies and assorted others,
I want to address a few things here with the first and most important being that this whole thread is such a waste. Elijah, two days ago I have to read about you quitting the arena, how you will never return to such a state of affairs. It was post after post, blasting those who try and govern this chaotic mess we now call the Duel of Swords. It was all deja-vu to me, because you see, I have been here all these years with you and as Jonalyn has
pointed out so well, we have been through this with you many times. Stop it already.
Baron Oakenshield, though you and I don't see eye to eye on many occasions anymore, I commend you on the ruling that the Baron's Council has brought forth. It was fair and just.
To everyone else, don't fuel this fire, it's not worth the kindling. Next page please.
Regards,
Valmion of Questrion
Petition for reinstatement of Title/Rank
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From: oortael5@aol.com (OorTael5)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 09:22:29 EDT
"From what I understand, the Council was set to vote in his favor before he decided to act like a childe and throw the Ring away,then top that by asking for it back"
Cas, nae, I do not believe the vote would have gone Ecore's way even if he didn't leave. By the time we were informed that he had officially retired I think that it was pretty much decided that his challenge was for naught.
~Galin Taelca
Baron of the Ninth O
Date: 24 Jun 1999 09:22:29 EDT
"From what I understand, the Council was set to vote in his favor before he decided to act like a childe and throw the Ring away,then top that by asking for it back"
Cas, nae, I do not believe the vote would have gone Ecore's way even if he didn't leave. By the time we were informed that he had officially retired I think that it was pretty much decided that his challenge was for naught.
~Galin Taelca
Baron of the Ninth O
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From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 10:18:31 EDT
This was a petition, no? Well you've tacked up a big 0 in your favor Ecore. Congratulations.
In the words of:
Tom
You only think you know me
Date: 24 Jun 1999 10:18:31 EDT
This was a petition, no? Well you've tacked up a big 0 in your favor Ecore. Congratulations.
In the words of:
Tom
You only think you know me
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From: shadowsiv@aol.com (Shadowsiv)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 10:34:49 EDT
>Why don't ya just fine him 10,000 gold pieces and slap him on the wrist?
Well now, there be an idea. Where did I see tha' before?
Shadow
::walks away with a chuckle::
Date: 24 Jun 1999 10:34:49 EDT
>Why don't ya just fine him 10,000 gold pieces and slap him on the wrist?
Well now, there be an idea. Where did I see tha' before?
Shadow
::walks away with a chuckle::
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 13:42:03 EDT
Why should he be 'tested' again? He won the ring, you beat him in an invalid challenge...the challenge is nullified, it being invalid, so he is returned the ring until someone who challenges him validly steps up.
Well wishes,
Coron.
Date: 24 Jun 1999 13:42:03 EDT
Why should he be 'tested' again? He won the ring, you beat him in an invalid challenge...the challenge is nullified, it being invalid, so he is returned the ring until someone who challenges him validly steps up.
Well wishes,
Coron.
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 13:54:43 EDT
Methous, please stop with your sensless rhetoric and your attempts at fine speech. You have and still harass children, and all in all, you're a disgusting specimen of a person; your attempts to appear reformed lack the actual change. Go sit down before you hurt yourself.
Coron.
Date: 24 Jun 1999 13:54:43 EDT
Methous, please stop with your sensless rhetoric and your attempts at fine speech. You have and still harass children, and all in all, you're a disgusting specimen of a person; your attempts to appear reformed lack the actual change. Go sit down before you hurt yourself.
Coron.
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From: methous45@aol.com (Methous45)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 18:26:29 EDT
::Just snikers hearing Coron's reply::
Coron,
I have said before in person, now I'll say it publicly. LEAVE ME ALONE.
Meth
True commoner at heart
Patron and member
"He's a warlord again......Yeah"
Date: 24 Jun 1999 18:26:29 EDT
::Just snikers hearing Coron's reply::
Coron,
I have said before in person, now I'll say it publicly. LEAVE ME ALONE.
Meth
True commoner at heart
Patron and member
"He's a warlord again......Yeah"
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From: sircassius@aol.com (SirCassius)
Date: 24 Jun 1999 20:18:26 EDT
Does armed battle give people better judgment in polital and personal matters? Does dueling an opponent to five points in a sandy ring heighten one's intelligence? What are you saying Ecore? Jonalyn is a part of this community because she's here. And guess what, she does duel here sometimes, infact, I dueled her a cycle ago. How could you possibly say
that the act of dueling, partaking in a sport, is what makes someone a member of the community?
Plus, its not just Jonalyn that has a problem with your challenge.
Okay, you made an illegal challenge and no one realized until you had won the duel. The challenge was made void, therefore the duel didnt count, therefore, Daelin remains baron and you lose your peer wins and right of challege for the cycle. It looks pretty black and white to me. You ask now, that the council gives you the ring (if you beat a champion). You see however, that you shouldnt be able to have this opportunity, because you dont have any
peer wins or a right to challenge. So, you messed up a challenge and you want in return for the council to 1) overlook your mistake. 2) Give you another chance at the ring (in theory, giving you the peer wins and right to challenge that you already used, back) 3) To let you pursue your right to wear the ring.
Why should they give you any of that? You're the one at fault here, not the council, not Daelin. Yes, illegal challenges have been followed through before. But now that you're bluntly asking for the council to ignore the rules on your behalf, its not happening. (it shouldnt at least).
I'm very glad you decided to come back to the Swords, I hated to see you go, but listen to yourself. Your arguments are ridiculous. You need to use the skill that you have, and we all know that you do have it, to regain your peers, and challenge next cycle.
Sincerely,
Caius Cassius
Sir FathePTSIZE=10>r Leo Caius PTSIZE=10>Cassius PrPTSIZE=10>ide
Of the Pride Family,
of the clan of
Cassius
Warlord and once
Baron of DoS
Roving PriCOLOR="#656565" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>est of Earth's CatholiCOLOR="#454545" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>c Church
Date: 24 Jun 1999 20:18:26 EDT
Does armed battle give people better judgment in polital and personal matters? Does dueling an opponent to five points in a sandy ring heighten one's intelligence? What are you saying Ecore? Jonalyn is a part of this community because she's here. And guess what, she does duel here sometimes, infact, I dueled her a cycle ago. How could you possibly say
that the act of dueling, partaking in a sport, is what makes someone a member of the community?
Plus, its not just Jonalyn that has a problem with your challenge.
Okay, you made an illegal challenge and no one realized until you had won the duel. The challenge was made void, therefore the duel didnt count, therefore, Daelin remains baron and you lose your peer wins and right of challege for the cycle. It looks pretty black and white to me. You ask now, that the council gives you the ring (if you beat a champion). You see however, that you shouldnt be able to have this opportunity, because you dont have any
peer wins or a right to challenge. So, you messed up a challenge and you want in return for the council to 1) overlook your mistake. 2) Give you another chance at the ring (in theory, giving you the peer wins and right to challenge that you already used, back) 3) To let you pursue your right to wear the ring.
Why should they give you any of that? You're the one at fault here, not the council, not Daelin. Yes, illegal challenges have been followed through before. But now that you're bluntly asking for the council to ignore the rules on your behalf, its not happening. (it shouldnt at least).
I'm very glad you decided to come back to the Swords, I hated to see you go, but listen to yourself. Your arguments are ridiculous. You need to use the skill that you have, and we all know that you do have it, to regain your peers, and challenge next cycle.
Sincerely,
Caius Cassius
Sir FathePTSIZE=10>r Leo Caius PTSIZE=10>Cassius PrPTSIZE=10>ide
Of the Pride Family,
of the clan of
Cassius
Warlord and once
Baron of DoS
Roving PriCOLOR="#656565" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>est of Earth's CatholiCOLOR="#454545" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>c Church
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 25 Jun 1999 03:03:14 EDT
::Having said her peice on this and the related subjects, she refrains from repeating herself... instead, she pens a very different note.::
To the Community.
As the Duel of Swords Standing's Keeper, I will continue to do my job to the best of my ability.
I have currently taken steps, concurrent with the steps taken by the Supervisor, to ensure that should any of the rules of engagement that I am required to enforce not be followed, swift action will be taken.
Before any of my detractors speak out against me on this, I suggest they peruse the rules of engagement.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 25 Jun 1999 03:03:14 EDT
::Having said her peice on this and the related subjects, she refrains from repeating herself... instead, she pens a very different note.::
To the Community.
As the Duel of Swords Standing's Keeper, I will continue to do my job to the best of my ability.
I have currently taken steps, concurrent with the steps taken by the Supervisor, to ensure that should any of the rules of engagement that I am required to enforce not be followed, swift action will be taken.
Before any of my detractors speak out against me on this, I suggest they peruse the rules of engagement.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: karnafexx@aol.com (Karnafexx)
Date: 25 Jun 1999 13:40:46 EDT
I guess what's done is done.
I think If ELijah hadn't retired he could should have gotten a rematch, but that's a moot point.
Best to just suck it up and get the peer wins back and try again.
The Jaycy thing has been a thorn in my side for some time now though. Granted, Helix let the matter slip by and let the baroness keep her ring. This however was a mistake, coordinators rights or not. Helix is no longer coordinator of the Duels though, why won't Golden bring Jaycy's case up again? Isn't the fact that there is a baroness on the council who won her ring using invalid peer wins worthy of further discussion?
Unfortunately the answer you'll get to that is "no". There should be no barons council at all to tell you the truth. It was workable with nine barons but not with 13 barons. To say that the council is beyond reproach is a laugh. I can honestly tell you that if there was someone universally loved in Elijah's place that the vote count would have been much different. The person would probably still have lost but many people would have voted differently
out of simple like for a person. I've been on the council a few times myself and I've seen votes get swayed a way they shouldn't merely because the person in question was either liked or disliked. The council is rarely if ever impartial.
Judgement calls like this should not be left up to a group of warrior peers, they should be dealt with by the coordinator firmly and consistantly. There is no need for a democratic descision in any of these matters because frankly, we as a group cannot be trusted to always make impartial descisions.
Rules are rules and the punishments for breaking them should be handed out by one person and one person only, that way they will always be fair and not be clouded by loyalties. If the coordinator did happen to judge based on loyalties then the people would speak out.
If you people want to talk about how rules need to be followed and strictly enforced then you'd better consider stripping Jaycy of her ring. Golden is in charge now, not Helix and the fact that he hasn't even looked into the matter of a baroness that won her ring with invalid peer wins has to raise a few brows. It doesn't matter that Helix let her slide because it is Golden's duty to enforce the rules and according to the rules, Jaycy is not a
baroness.
I'll tell you all what though, not a damn thing will be done in that situation, and they'll tell you that it's already been decided or that it was a long time ago...yadda,yadda...but the fact is, Jaycy is well liked and noone would really wants to do that to someone they liked, rules or no rules.
Billy Ray.
Date: 25 Jun 1999 13:40:46 EDT
I guess what's done is done.
I think If ELijah hadn't retired he could should have gotten a rematch, but that's a moot point.
Best to just suck it up and get the peer wins back and try again.
The Jaycy thing has been a thorn in my side for some time now though. Granted, Helix let the matter slip by and let the baroness keep her ring. This however was a mistake, coordinators rights or not. Helix is no longer coordinator of the Duels though, why won't Golden bring Jaycy's case up again? Isn't the fact that there is a baroness on the council who won her ring using invalid peer wins worthy of further discussion?
Unfortunately the answer you'll get to that is "no". There should be no barons council at all to tell you the truth. It was workable with nine barons but not with 13 barons. To say that the council is beyond reproach is a laugh. I can honestly tell you that if there was someone universally loved in Elijah's place that the vote count would have been much different. The person would probably still have lost but many people would have voted differently
out of simple like for a person. I've been on the council a few times myself and I've seen votes get swayed a way they shouldn't merely because the person in question was either liked or disliked. The council is rarely if ever impartial.
Judgement calls like this should not be left up to a group of warrior peers, they should be dealt with by the coordinator firmly and consistantly. There is no need for a democratic descision in any of these matters because frankly, we as a group cannot be trusted to always make impartial descisions.
Rules are rules and the punishments for breaking them should be handed out by one person and one person only, that way they will always be fair and not be clouded by loyalties. If the coordinator did happen to judge based on loyalties then the people would speak out.
If you people want to talk about how rules need to be followed and strictly enforced then you'd better consider stripping Jaycy of her ring. Golden is in charge now, not Helix and the fact that he hasn't even looked into the matter of a baroness that won her ring with invalid peer wins has to raise a few brows. It doesn't matter that Helix let her slide because it is Golden's duty to enforce the rules and according to the rules, Jaycy is not a
baroness.
I'll tell you all what though, not a damn thing will be done in that situation, and they'll tell you that it's already been decided or that it was a long time ago...yadda,yadda...but the fact is, Jaycy is well liked and noone would really wants to do that to someone they liked, rules or no rules.
Billy Ray.
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 25 Jun 1999 14:11:53 EDT
I understand where Billy is coming from, regarding the fact that Jaycy has unrightfully (is that a word?) become a baroness.
To be honest, though, while this is probably just my lack of experience speaking, I don't recall a case being reopened, though.
If things can be rectified, I can only encourage it. While I have no power, I will voice my opinion where I feel I must.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
Date: 25 Jun 1999 14:11:53 EDT
I understand where Billy is coming from, regarding the fact that Jaycy has unrightfully (is that a word?) become a baroness.
To be honest, though, while this is probably just my lack of experience speaking, I don't recall a case being reopened, though.
If things can be rectified, I can only encourage it. While I have no power, I will voice my opinion where I feel I must.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 25 Jun 1999 14:39:43 EDT
BRK,
Besides, even if they did reopen the Jayc case, she would probably have a grandfather clause or something or some other excuse.
~Ecore
Date: 25 Jun 1999 14:39:43 EDT
BRK,
Besides, even if they did reopen the Jayc case, she would probably have a grandfather clause or something or some other excuse.
~Ecore
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 25 Jun 1999 20:19:00 EDT
>>Granted, Helix let the matter slip by and let the baroness keep her ring. This however was a mistake, coordinators rights or not. Helix is no longer coordinator of the Duels though, why won't Golden bring Jaycy's case up again? Isn't the fact that there is a baroness on the council who won her ring using invalid peer wins worthy of further discussion?<<
Billy,
Then shall someone, after Golden is no longer supervisor, reopen the case again and give Jaycy the ring back? Now, I won't go into all the details of the Jaycy case again. To start the argument over now, on the boards, again would be ridiculous. Instead I am going to talk about decisions made by supervisors, Baron's councils, those in authority, etc.
If the current supervisor (Golden now or someone else in the future) decided to overturn a decision made in a specific case by the previous supervisor, that would be a dangerous precedent. That would make it very possible for any supervisor to change any ruling made in such matters by any predecessor. It could, eventually, reach a point where a supervisor's decision didn't mean anything.
>>There should be no barons council at all to tell you the truth. It was workable with nine barons but not with 13 barons. To say that the council is beyond reproach is a laugh.<<
This is mostly true. Decisions by the council tend to be made for a variety of personal reasons by a group of people whose motives are all very different. Often decisions are made largely because of popularity, yes. There is very little, if any, rule of precedent in council decisions. Decisions are reached for reasons of politics and votes are often cast because people like or dislike one of the prinicples in the case.
There are some cases where people on one or both sides of the issue examine the situation fully and actually try to do the right thing. There are some people who tend to always try to take the matter seriously. However, whenever you have anyone making a decision, personal feelings are going be involved. Thirteen sets of personal feelings making one decision is going to lead to problems. Pure and simple.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 25 Jun 1999 20:19:00 EDT
>>Granted, Helix let the matter slip by and let the baroness keep her ring. This however was a mistake, coordinators rights or not. Helix is no longer coordinator of the Duels though, why won't Golden bring Jaycy's case up again? Isn't the fact that there is a baroness on the council who won her ring using invalid peer wins worthy of further discussion?<<
Billy,
Then shall someone, after Golden is no longer supervisor, reopen the case again and give Jaycy the ring back? Now, I won't go into all the details of the Jaycy case again. To start the argument over now, on the boards, again would be ridiculous. Instead I am going to talk about decisions made by supervisors, Baron's councils, those in authority, etc.
If the current supervisor (Golden now or someone else in the future) decided to overturn a decision made in a specific case by the previous supervisor, that would be a dangerous precedent. That would make it very possible for any supervisor to change any ruling made in such matters by any predecessor. It could, eventually, reach a point where a supervisor's decision didn't mean anything.
>>There should be no barons council at all to tell you the truth. It was workable with nine barons but not with 13 barons. To say that the council is beyond reproach is a laugh.<<
This is mostly true. Decisions by the council tend to be made for a variety of personal reasons by a group of people whose motives are all very different. Often decisions are made largely because of popularity, yes. There is very little, if any, rule of precedent in council decisions. Decisions are reached for reasons of politics and votes are often cast because people like or dislike one of the prinicples in the case.
There are some cases where people on one or both sides of the issue examine the situation fully and actually try to do the right thing. There are some people who tend to always try to take the matter seriously. However, whenever you have anyone making a decision, personal feelings are going be involved. Thirteen sets of personal feelings making one decision is going to lead to problems. Pure and simple.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: zafiroo@aol.com (Zafiroo)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 00:54:51 EDT
Takes notice of a certian line that keeps appearing.
EagleEcore
But didn't this same Council vote to let Daelin have the ring back? No offense to Daelin, but I did prove to beat him when this challenge was considered valid. When the prize was on the line he failed and I succeeded. And yet you don't even test him to prove his worth to hold the ring again, but just hand it over as if his loss never happened. I can accept not getting the Seventh back, but I don't
think Daelin deserves to still hold the ring,
Well to me it seems the challenge that was made was an invalid challenge which means the challenge should not have taken place. Now you speak about Dae losing so he should be tested are you also saying that every time a Baron lose's a duel they should be tested to see if they are still worthy of holding the ring.As you stated in another post any dueler can defeat another on any given day..this is not too
insult you Ecore but it seems you contridict yourself quite often.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
Date: 26 Jun 1999 00:54:51 EDT
Takes notice of a certian line that keeps appearing.
EagleEcore
But didn't this same Council vote to let Daelin have the ring back? No offense to Daelin, but I did prove to beat him when this challenge was considered valid. When the prize was on the line he failed and I succeeded. And yet you don't even test him to prove his worth to hold the ring again, but just hand it over as if his loss never happened. I can accept not getting the Seventh back, but I don't
think Daelin deserves to still hold the ring,
Well to me it seems the challenge that was made was an invalid challenge which means the challenge should not have taken place. Now you speak about Dae losing so he should be tested are you also saying that every time a Baron lose's a duel they should be tested to see if they are still worthy of holding the ring.As you stated in another post any dueler can defeat another on any given day..this is not too
insult you Ecore but it seems you contridict yourself quite often.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
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From: xdemcyrax@aol.com (X DemCyrax)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 08:29:13 EDT
If the challenge "never happened" in the first place, then why was the challnger stripped of his peer wins and right to challenge for the cycle? He sent in his challenge and it was validated...hardly a reason for peer wins to be stripped...
Dem
Date: 26 Jun 1999 08:29:13 EDT
If the challenge "never happened" in the first place, then why was the challnger stripped of his peer wins and right to challenge for the cycle? He sent in his challenge and it was validated...hardly a reason for peer wins to be stripped...
Dem