From: andreathrn@aol.com (AndreaThrn)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 09:03:07 EDT
:::finally deciding to drop a few cents in, coming off her shift::
M' first thought be tha' he retired, ergo is stripped o' peer wins.
Then 'f course, there's the consequenses 'f turnin' in an invalid challenge, which started this whole thin' in th' first place.
Jus' correct me if'n I be wrong... an' I 'm sure tha' ye will.
Andrea Silverthorn
An' tha's Andy t' ye!
Petition for reinstatement of Title/Rank
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 09:21:49 EDT
Zafiroo,
Since you haven't been here long it's possible you haven't heard the whole phrase.
Any given dueler can win any given match versus any other given dueler on any given day, however it's the dueler who can win when there is a prize at stake that distinguishes himself above the others and that history remembers over the any given dueler.
~Ecore
Date: 26 Jun 1999 09:21:49 EDT
Zafiroo,
Since you haven't been here long it's possible you haven't heard the whole phrase.
Any given dueler can win any given match versus any other given dueler on any given day, however it's the dueler who can win when there is a prize at stake that distinguishes himself above the others and that history remembers over the any given dueler.
~Ecore
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 18:17:55 EDT
>If the challenge "never happened" in the first place, then why was the
>challnger stripped of his peer wins and right to challenge for the cycle? He
>sent in his challenge and it was validated...hardly a reason for peer wins to
>be stripped...
Dem,
By the rules of challenging, once you issue a challenge, your peer wins are stripped. This happens whether or not they are valid in the first place. Moreover, your right to challenge for the cycle is stripped. It's part of the rules, unless I'm mistaken.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
Date: 26 Jun 1999 18:17:55 EDT
>If the challenge "never happened" in the first place, then why was the
>challnger stripped of his peer wins and right to challenge for the cycle? He
>sent in his challenge and it was validated...hardly a reason for peer wins to
>be stripped...
Dem,
By the rules of challenging, once you issue a challenge, your peer wins are stripped. This happens whether or not they are valid in the first place. Moreover, your right to challenge for the cycle is stripped. It's part of the rules, unless I'm mistaken.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Phantom Scots Captain_–¯
¯–_Warlord of DoS_–¯
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From: fryguy9000@aol.com (FryGuy9000)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 18:38:45 EDT
Alright children...Quit your whining. I didn't read more than about ten of these posts and I'm already vomiting... Here's the deal...
E challenged Daelin and won. His peer wins WERE validated when he won. But later investigation proved that the standings weren't up, and the matter is put forth. Then E runs off in a whining rant to god knows where to think, retiring the ring in the process. Okay.
Now...E won the ring, and had it. But he retired it. Sorry E. You don't get yer ring. And that's my opinion on the matter, regardless of wether it's been solved yet or not. Oh...and BLEH.
Send all comments to,
~Hunter Mano
Date: 26 Jun 1999 18:38:45 EDT
Alright children...Quit your whining. I didn't read more than about ten of these posts and I'm already vomiting... Here's the deal...
E challenged Daelin and won. His peer wins WERE validated when he won. But later investigation proved that the standings weren't up, and the matter is put forth. Then E runs off in a whining rant to god knows where to think, retiring the ring in the process. Okay.
Now...E won the ring, and had it. But he retired it. Sorry E. You don't get yer ring. And that's my opinion on the matter, regardless of wether it's been solved yet or not. Oh...and BLEH.
Send all comments to,
~Hunter Mano
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 19:24:04 EDT
Var,
You are mistaken. My peer wins are invalid because I technically officially retired. Most that I have known that have done an improper/invalid/illegal challenges usually got their peer wins back and could challenge again the same cycle. Though, regardless if someone does do an improper/invalid/illegal challenge before they have a chance to figure out on their own should have all their peer wins stripped, and their right to challenge for the rest
of the cycle revoked every single time without fail regardless of who the challenging personage might be. I tried to recind my retirement before the Standings went up. Funny, how when I challenge the Standings aren't up till late Thursday, yet when I retire they are up late Monday night/early Tuesday morning.
Personally, I think there should be some sort of official window to get notices in to make the current Standings. And that the Standings Keeper can not submit the Standings till after a certain time. Like the Standings Keeper will only except all notices of retiring, reinstatement, and perhaps even challenges up until midnight Tuesday, and then always submit the Standings on Wednesday, regardless if staff has turned in their reports or not. I
only say this, because the consistency of how these things happen is very inconsistent. If the Standings hadn't been released earlier then usual then I would have never had officially retired.
I am not whining or complaining, just using my recent circumstances as an example. For so long little nitpicky things and wonderings why no one ever made something law or rule official has been making things too controversial to be left to a few people's interpetations, and probably would avoid a lot of arguements on this board.
~Ecore
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Guardian of the Seventh Baron Ring of Swords~
Date: 26 Jun 1999 19:24:04 EDT
Var,
You are mistaken. My peer wins are invalid because I technically officially retired. Most that I have known that have done an improper/invalid/illegal challenges usually got their peer wins back and could challenge again the same cycle. Though, regardless if someone does do an improper/invalid/illegal challenge before they have a chance to figure out on their own should have all their peer wins stripped, and their right to challenge for the rest
of the cycle revoked every single time without fail regardless of who the challenging personage might be. I tried to recind my retirement before the Standings went up. Funny, how when I challenge the Standings aren't up till late Thursday, yet when I retire they are up late Monday night/early Tuesday morning.
Personally, I think there should be some sort of official window to get notices in to make the current Standings. And that the Standings Keeper can not submit the Standings till after a certain time. Like the Standings Keeper will only except all notices of retiring, reinstatement, and perhaps even challenges up until midnight Tuesday, and then always submit the Standings on Wednesday, regardless if staff has turned in their reports or not. I
only say this, because the consistency of how these things happen is very inconsistent. If the Standings hadn't been released earlier then usual then I would have never had officially retired.
I am not whining or complaining, just using my recent circumstances as an example. For so long little nitpicky things and wonderings why no one ever made something law or rule official has been making things too controversial to be left to a few people's interpetations, and probably would avoid a lot of arguements on this board.
~Ecore
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Guardian of the Seventh Baron Ring of Swords~
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 26 Jun 1999 19:27:17 EDT
::scratches out old bad signature and overlays it with the proper one::
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
Date: 26 Jun 1999 19:27:17 EDT
::scratches out old bad signature and overlays it with the proper one::
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
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From: zafiroo@aol.com (Zafiroo)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 01:46:25 EDT
::looks at the board::
Point well taken
Zafiroo Turidan
Date: 27 Jun 1999 01:46:25 EDT
::looks at the board::
Point well taken
Zafiroo Turidan
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From: zafiroo@aol.com (Zafiroo)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 02:02:01 EDT
Ecore just a couple of question about this statement.
However, prescedent has made this day. From now on the community expects the Baron's Council to always deliver the same ruling if another challenges invalidly, illegally, or improperly, regardless of who was involved. If the officials of the sport prove and present a challenge as invalid like mine, then the same precdent setting ruling should be used. In effect you have established law of the rings
these days. If you do not then it obviously
makes me look a target and you the hypocrits.
How many of the current Barons were on the council and the time of the other rulings?
If they are different.How would that make them make them hypocrits?
Wouldnt a different council have different opinions on what severity of a ruling should be?
Zafiroo Turidan
Date: 27 Jun 1999 02:02:01 EDT
Ecore just a couple of question about this statement.
However, prescedent has made this day. From now on the community expects the Baron's Council to always deliver the same ruling if another challenges invalidly, illegally, or improperly, regardless of who was involved. If the officials of the sport prove and present a challenge as invalid like mine, then the same precdent setting ruling should be used. In effect you have established law of the rings
these days. If you do not then it obviously
makes me look a target and you the hypocrits.
How many of the current Barons were on the council and the time of the other rulings?
If they are different.How would that make them make them hypocrits?
Wouldnt a different council have different opinions on what severity of a ruling should be?
Zafiroo Turidan
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 10:48:10 EDT
Baron Zafiroo,
The Baron's Council, IMHO, should not be subject to personal opinion on deciding a matter differently then that of their predecessors. The Baron's Council, IMHO, shouldn't change or make new precedent because of the individuals involved, but rather on already established history or precedent, if the circumstance for the past and present cases remain the same. The Baron's Council in general, not necessarily the current individuals, could be
considered hypocritical, if they decided to treat every matter differently though the circumstances remain the same. If the Baron's Council started doing that, then it would look like they were targeting some and favoring others, in which case the Baron's Council would look corrupt and lose all crediability, regardless of the individuals who held the title then or now.
In my experience here I have told many my warped sense of honor, and perhaps this would be a time to better explain it. Many times I have told other duelers that if you don't always like the title holder still respect the title. Regardless if the devil himself has become Baron or Overlord, you still respect the title and give it its proper due, you can work on getting someone else to wear the crown or ring. And part of being a title holder is to
look above the individuals you pass judgement or whose careers you decide for the future, but rather what is best for the entire sport and the community now and in the future. At least that is my view, obviously many probably will differ from mine.
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
Date: 27 Jun 1999 10:48:10 EDT
Baron Zafiroo,
The Baron's Council, IMHO, should not be subject to personal opinion on deciding a matter differently then that of their predecessors. The Baron's Council, IMHO, shouldn't change or make new precedent because of the individuals involved, but rather on already established history or precedent, if the circumstance for the past and present cases remain the same. The Baron's Council in general, not necessarily the current individuals, could be
considered hypocritical, if they decided to treat every matter differently though the circumstances remain the same. If the Baron's Council started doing that, then it would look like they were targeting some and favoring others, in which case the Baron's Council would look corrupt and lose all crediability, regardless of the individuals who held the title then or now.
In my experience here I have told many my warped sense of honor, and perhaps this would be a time to better explain it. Many times I have told other duelers that if you don't always like the title holder still respect the title. Regardless if the devil himself has become Baron or Overlord, you still respect the title and give it its proper due, you can work on getting someone else to wear the crown or ring. And part of being a title holder is to
look above the individuals you pass judgement or whose careers you decide for the future, but rather what is best for the entire sport and the community now and in the future. At least that is my view, obviously many probably will differ from mine.
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 13:03:50 EDT
The baronial council was never consulted in the matter of Jaycynda's invalid challenge.
Date: 27 Jun 1999 13:03:50 EDT
The baronial council was never consulted in the matter of Jaycynda's invalid challenge.
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From: valmion@aol.com (Valmion)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 13:40:50 EDT
To everyone reading this,
Throughout history there have been those in power who use that position for personal and political means. I am sick and tired of hearing some folks whine about decisions that have been made by people who have "earned" the right to make that decision wheather you think it is right or not. If you don't like how the Barons Council votes on an issue, challenge those who cast the offending vote.
Simply,
Valmion
Date: 27 Jun 1999 13:40:50 EDT
To everyone reading this,
Throughout history there have been those in power who use that position for personal and political means. I am sick and tired of hearing some folks whine about decisions that have been made by people who have "earned" the right to make that decision wheather you think it is right or not. If you don't like how the Barons Council votes on an issue, challenge those who cast the offending vote.
Simply,
Valmion
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 15:30:14 EDT
With all due respect, Valmion, but just because someone has earned the right to wear the ring and vote on its behalf, that doesn't mean that person has earned the right to dishonor the title or the DoS by being corrupt.
Just because we were all given free will doesn't mean that killing someone is anymore right.
That's just my opinion.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 27 Jun 1999 15:30:14 EDT
With all due respect, Valmion, but just because someone has earned the right to wear the ring and vote on its behalf, that doesn't mean that person has earned the right to dishonor the title or the DoS by being corrupt.
Just because we were all given free will doesn't mean that killing someone is anymore right.
That's just my opinion.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: valmion@aol.com (Valmion)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 16:23:48 EDT
Your grace,
Once more, throughout history of any land that I have read about, there are those who are corrupt and will use power to benefit themselves. To continue with your line of thinking, perhaps we should have a pre-challenge poll to see if the challenger will honor the thinking of all of those involved should that person attain the rank he challenges for.
The DoS is dishonored in other ways Var, one by it becoming a ceasepool of political correctness, something it was never intended to be. You have been given a ring and the skill to use a blade, if there are differences of opinion between two parties, pick up the blade and take it to the ring and settle it there. It's that simple.
Respectfully,
Valmion
Date: 27 Jun 1999 16:23:48 EDT
Your grace,
Once more, throughout history of any land that I have read about, there are those who are corrupt and will use power to benefit themselves. To continue with your line of thinking, perhaps we should have a pre-challenge poll to see if the challenger will honor the thinking of all of those involved should that person attain the rank he challenges for.
The DoS is dishonored in other ways Var, one by it becoming a ceasepool of political correctness, something it was never intended to be. You have been given a ring and the skill to use a blade, if there are differences of opinion between two parties, pick up the blade and take it to the ring and settle it there. It's that simple.
Respectfully,
Valmion
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 17:17:23 EDT
Valmion,
While I understand what you are saying, I feel I might have failed in stating my point correctly.
There will be people who are corrupt, and yes, they should be removed from power if they do make poor judgement calls. However, the fact remains that while they have certain rights, there is absolutely no right for them to abuse their power.
Ideally, I would prefer not having anyone corrupt that people could challenge. They should not take their title for granted. The rings do not belong to them; the rings belong to the Duel of Swords. Wearing the ring means you make judgement calls on what he/she thinks is best for DoS, not what he/she wants the most.
Yes, they are just ideals, but they are things worth striving for.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 27 Jun 1999 17:17:23 EDT
Valmion,
While I understand what you are saying, I feel I might have failed in stating my point correctly.
There will be people who are corrupt, and yes, they should be removed from power if they do make poor judgement calls. However, the fact remains that while they have certain rights, there is absolutely no right for them to abuse their power.
Ideally, I would prefer not having anyone corrupt that people could challenge. They should not take their title for granted. The rings do not belong to them; the rings belong to the Duel of Swords. Wearing the ring means you make judgement calls on what he/she thinks is best for DoS, not what he/she wants the most.
Yes, they are just ideals, but they are things worth striving for.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: ldyajabird@aol.com (LdyAjaBird)
Date: 27 Jun 1999 18:19:00 EDT
> There will be people who are corrupt, and yes, they should be removed from power if they do make poor judgement calls. However, the fact remains that
>while they have certain rights, there is absolutely no right for them to abuse their power.<<
Var,
Since when was right and wrong factored into positions of power?
And just who decides what's right? While I respect you, I wouldn't take every bit of what you said as gospel. I tend to like thinking for myself. While I may not always be "right", at least I have no one to blame but me when it all comes crashng down.
Respectfully,
Lady Aja Bird
Date: 27 Jun 1999 18:19:00 EDT
> There will be people who are corrupt, and yes, they should be removed from power if they do make poor judgement calls. However, the fact remains that
>while they have certain rights, there is absolutely no right for them to abuse their power.<<
Var,
Since when was right and wrong factored into positions of power?
And just who decides what's right? While I respect you, I wouldn't take every bit of what you said as gospel. I tend to like thinking for myself. While I may not always be "right", at least I have no one to blame but me when it all comes crashng down.
Respectfully,
Lady Aja Bird