From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 04:11:45 EDT
A clarification:
Feamegil also felt that the Barons should ALSO face constant challenge. However, from my discussions with him, that itself was his reason for aligning everyone renegade. His opinion, simply, was that if complete oafs of duelers were to challenge those Barons whose Loyalty he would otherwise accept, those Barons should, by all rights, be more than capable of dealing with the problem themselves.
After all, if you weren't enough of a fighter to beat the snot out of a miserable excuse for a lifeform, you weren't good enough to be loyal to Feadur, anyway.
That is why I say that reciprocation wasn't an issue with him; in fact, with his mindset, allowing you to fight for yourself WAS loyalty.
Except, of course, in the case of his Swordsister, which is an entirely different discussion, and, due to my personal involvements in that situation, one I feel disinclined to engage in.
~irm
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 14:54:16 EDT
>The very act of accepting Loyalty requires, in an honorable man, the
>reciprication of that Loyalty.
Drake,
For one, the Loyals that I do currently have would not, to my knoweledge, ever ask for intercession anyway. I believe Galin would even stand Renegade if I offered intercessions. Also, my assumption would be that those standing Renegade to me now would remain Renegade if I offered intercessions, so returning Loyalty through this act would not matter. Of course, I could be wrong about the Renegades, but Im sure my stances are not the only reason
that they choose to stand the way they do.
And....by this message, do you mean to say that I am not an honorable man? I most likely am not in the eyes of many, but is that what you meant to say through this statement?
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 02 Sep 1999 14:54:16 EDT
>The very act of accepting Loyalty requires, in an honorable man, the
>reciprication of that Loyalty.
Drake,
For one, the Loyals that I do currently have would not, to my knoweledge, ever ask for intercession anyway. I believe Galin would even stand Renegade if I offered intercessions. Also, my assumption would be that those standing Renegade to me now would remain Renegade if I offered intercessions, so returning Loyalty through this act would not matter. Of course, I could be wrong about the Renegades, but Im sure my stances are not the only reason
that they choose to stand the way they do.
And....by this message, do you mean to say that I am not an honorable man? I most likely am not in the eyes of many, but is that what you meant to say through this statement?
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:07:04 EDT
>>Test and improve one's self...for what? <<
If a person feels they need a specific reason to work at always improving themself, I would say they probably have a very good one. No one is perfect, but everyone should strive to be the best they can be.
Oh, and don't worry about receiving a gauntlet. You've proved well enough that there would be no point. I am just saddened that you, on the one hand, mock people for sticking to their principles and yet, on the other, assume such self righteous mien when others questions yours.
Percy
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:07:04 EDT
>>Test and improve one's self...for what? <<
If a person feels they need a specific reason to work at always improving themself, I would say they probably have a very good one. No one is perfect, but everyone should strive to be the best they can be.
Oh, and don't worry about receiving a gauntlet. You've proved well enough that there would be no point. I am just saddened that you, on the one hand, mock people for sticking to their principles and yet, on the other, assume such self righteous mien when others questions yours.
Percy
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:13:04 EDT
>> So even though you have the power to make it much more difficult for people like Methous to gain a ring, you would not step in? You hold your own beliefs above the good of the Arena?<<
Rix,
I don't mean to question your motives or your judgement, nor do I mean personal offense or insult. I am, however, very curious about something. Please do not take this as other than a desire to know, but did you not champion Agrenish against Unagi's champion, Banda? Agrenish's actions and conduct could be very closely compared with Methous's. There is not a precise correlation, but neither is there that wide a gulf.
This is my question: why did Agrenish have more right to duel the Overlord unencumbered that Methous would to duel a Baron? Neither one has any respect for the sport, the community, or their opponents.
Percy
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:13:04 EDT
>> So even though you have the power to make it much more difficult for people like Methous to gain a ring, you would not step in? You hold your own beliefs above the good of the Arena?<<
Rix,
I don't mean to question your motives or your judgement, nor do I mean personal offense or insult. I am, however, very curious about something. Please do not take this as other than a desire to know, but did you not champion Agrenish against Unagi's champion, Banda? Agrenish's actions and conduct could be very closely compared with Methous's. There is not a precise correlation, but neither is there that wide a gulf.
This is my question: why did Agrenish have more right to duel the Overlord unencumbered that Methous would to duel a Baron? Neither one has any respect for the sport, the community, or their opponents.
Percy
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:19:30 EDT
>>Of course, as my Father would say, the fact that Arthur was nearly thrice Gwenivere's age when they married might have had something to do with it as well.<<
This is off the topic but, if one is to accept the given chronology of most extant history and myth about King Arthur, he became king at 15, spent 2-3 years at war with the rebels, then married Guenivere at age 17 or 18 before fighting the Saxons. Was Guenivere really 6?
Percy
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:19:30 EDT
>>Of course, as my Father would say, the fact that Arthur was nearly thrice Gwenivere's age when they married might have had something to do with it as well.<<
This is off the topic but, if one is to accept the given chronology of most extant history and myth about King Arthur, he became king at 15, spent 2-3 years at war with the rebels, then married Guenivere at age 17 or 18 before fighting the Saxons. Was Guenivere really 6?
Percy
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From: verceterixfavre@aol.com (Verceterix Favre)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:22:44 EDT
Nothing wrong with the questions, Percy. I'll do my best to give you a good answer.
I thought that Agrenish would make a good Overlord. In my eyes, his conduct was tainted by others who did not give him a chance. I wanted him to have a chance to prove to his detractors that he could be a good Overlord. And here I must correct you on one point; Agrenish did show respect for me and others on occasion, so you saying he did not have any respect for the sport, community, or his opponents is false.
My opinion is Agrenish had the right to duel the Overlord without a test because he had the ability and motivation to be a good Overlord. I may have made a mistake, I might not have, but that is in the past.
But on the other hand, the current Overlord was going to interceed on behalf of Agrenish had I not been there. That in itself is rather interesting, don't you think?
-Rix
Baron of the Fifth
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:22:44 EDT
Nothing wrong with the questions, Percy. I'll do my best to give you a good answer.
I thought that Agrenish would make a good Overlord. In my eyes, his conduct was tainted by others who did not give him a chance. I wanted him to have a chance to prove to his detractors that he could be a good Overlord. And here I must correct you on one point; Agrenish did show respect for me and others on occasion, so you saying he did not have any respect for the sport, community, or his opponents is false.
My opinion is Agrenish had the right to duel the Overlord without a test because he had the ability and motivation to be a good Overlord. I may have made a mistake, I might not have, but that is in the past.
But on the other hand, the current Overlord was going to interceed on behalf of Agrenish had I not been there. That in itself is rather interesting, don't you think?
-Rix
Baron of the Fifth
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:23:43 EDT
>>His opinion, simply, was that if complete oafs of duelers were to challenge those Barons whose Loyalty he would otherwise accept, those Barons should, by all rights, be more than capable of dealing with the problem themselves.
After all, if you weren't enough of a fighter to beat the snot out of a miserable excuse for a lifeform, you weren't good enough to be loyal to Feadur, anyway.<<
I have to ask Magnus then. Magnus, how far is this from your way of thinking?
Percy
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:23:43 EDT
>>His opinion, simply, was that if complete oafs of duelers were to challenge those Barons whose Loyalty he would otherwise accept, those Barons should, by all rights, be more than capable of dealing with the problem themselves.
After all, if you weren't enough of a fighter to beat the snot out of a miserable excuse for a lifeform, you weren't good enough to be loyal to Feadur, anyway.<<
I have to ask Magnus then. Magnus, how far is this from your way of thinking?
Percy
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:30:23 EDT
>>But on the other hand, the current Overlord was going to interceed on behalf of Agrenish had I not been there. That in itself is rather interesting, don't you think?<<
First of all, thank you for the very thorough answers. I appreciate it. I also thank you for taking the questions in the spirit in which they were asked and not as an attack of any sort.
Second, Magnus would have intervened, yes. I know his reasons though. He is, rightly or wrongly, an idealist who believes that principles are more important than personalities. I don't agree with him one hundred percent, but I respect his principles.
Likewise, I respect the principles of those who disagree. My major concern is that some seem to be belittling him for his principles, rather than debating those principles. I thank you for not doing so, but keeping the exchange one of ideas and not insults.
Percy
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:30:23 EDT
>>But on the other hand, the current Overlord was going to interceed on behalf of Agrenish had I not been there. That in itself is rather interesting, don't you think?<<
First of all, thank you for the very thorough answers. I appreciate it. I also thank you for taking the questions in the spirit in which they were asked and not as an attack of any sort.
Second, Magnus would have intervened, yes. I know his reasons though. He is, rightly or wrongly, an idealist who believes that principles are more important than personalities. I don't agree with him one hundred percent, but I respect his principles.
Likewise, I respect the principles of those who disagree. My major concern is that some seem to be belittling him for his principles, rather than debating those principles. I thank you for not doing so, but keeping the exchange one of ideas and not insults.
Percy
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:43:46 EDT
Percy,
In answer to your question, I guess that could be considered around the area of my thinking, but not exactly as I see things. But every man sees things differently, so I would have to say that perhaps we saw some things the same, but definately not all.
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:43:46 EDT
Percy,
In answer to your question, I guess that could be considered around the area of my thinking, but not exactly as I see things. But every man sees things differently, so I would have to say that perhaps we saw some things the same, but definately not all.
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:47:02 EDT
One more thing Percy,
My principles were not the only reason I wished to intercede for Agrenish. He did not always badmouth people, and acted respectful towards myself many times. I guess like Rix said, he deserved to be Overlord. I did not think he would retire the crown like he did, though.
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 02 Sep 1999 15:47:02 EDT
One more thing Percy,
My principles were not the only reason I wished to intercede for Agrenish. He did not always badmouth people, and acted respectful towards myself many times. I guess like Rix said, he deserved to be Overlord. I did not think he would retire the crown like he did, though.
~Magnus~
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From: xxzenrisingxx@aol.com (Xx Zen Rising xX)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 17:18:39 EDT
" So even though you have the power to make it much more difficult for people like Methous to gain a ring, you would not step in? You hold your own beliefs above the good of the Arena?
Intercession at times is not all bad. I hope you would reconsider should you be in power to stop someone who has or would disgrace the Arena."
When I was overlord and Methous challenged Eros I offered to step in, but Eros declined the offer.
True, this was before he actually destroyed the ring, but nevertheless he had a history of conduct which indicated a total lack of respect for all around him.
It was also made known to me that three barons had planned to step in against me should I intercede against Methous. And if I was told the truth, you were one of them, Rix.
I mean no insult, but given your recent writings, I was reminded of the incident, and felt I had to ask you this simple question: Why?
Date: 02 Sep 1999 17:18:39 EDT
" So even though you have the power to make it much more difficult for people like Methous to gain a ring, you would not step in? You hold your own beliefs above the good of the Arena?
Intercession at times is not all bad. I hope you would reconsider should you be in power to stop someone who has or would disgrace the Arena."
When I was overlord and Methous challenged Eros I offered to step in, but Eros declined the offer.
True, this was before he actually destroyed the ring, but nevertheless he had a history of conduct which indicated a total lack of respect for all around him.
It was also made known to me that three barons had planned to step in against me should I intercede against Methous. And if I was told the truth, you were one of them, Rix.
I mean no insult, but given your recent writings, I was reminded of the incident, and felt I had to ask you this simple question: Why?
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From: verceterixfavre@aol.com (Verceterix Favre)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 19:55:15 EDT
In response to your question, Zen:
I viewed Methous much like I viewed Agrenish. Someone that was not given a chance and, should they have one, would prove their detractors wrong. That and I felt Eros was not exactly a shining example of a Baron.
Needless to say I was horribly mistaken. But thankfully I had a bit of power to rectify my mistake of ever believing Methous could be a good title holder.
-Rix
Date: 02 Sep 1999 19:55:15 EDT
In response to your question, Zen:
I viewed Methous much like I viewed Agrenish. Someone that was not given a chance and, should they have one, would prove their detractors wrong. That and I felt Eros was not exactly a shining example of a Baron.
Needless to say I was horribly mistaken. But thankfully I had a bit of power to rectify my mistake of ever believing Methous could be a good title holder.
-Rix
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 02 Sep 1999 21:11:55 EDT
Remind me to never appoint you to a judicial position, Rix.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Warlord in DoS
Former Baron of the Sixth
Mage in DoM
Member of HDT
The Llama-ask Huma
"I am an honorable man, but to duel me is not a pleasant experience, if only for the pain"
Date: 02 Sep 1999 21:11:55 EDT
Remind me to never appoint you to a judicial position, Rix.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Warlord in DoS
Former Baron of the Sixth
Mage in DoM
Member of HDT
The Llama-ask Huma
"I am an honorable man, but to duel me is not a pleasant experience, if only for the pain"
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 03 Sep 1999 14:13:38 EDT
>>Remind me to never appoint you to a judicial position, Rix.<<
Gaius,
That remark was completely uncalled for. I admit to being a more judgemental person than Rix, but his willingness to give people the benefit of the doubt speaks well of him. I tend to be more cynical, but that doesn't mean I don't understand his thoughts or respect them.
Moreover, Rix has earned respect both with his general conduct and his blade. Show it. For that matter, start doing some thinking before you open your mouth. If you did, you might not get into so much trouble.
Percy
Date: 03 Sep 1999 14:13:38 EDT
>>Remind me to never appoint you to a judicial position, Rix.<<
Gaius,
That remark was completely uncalled for. I admit to being a more judgemental person than Rix, but his willingness to give people the benefit of the doubt speaks well of him. I tend to be more cynical, but that doesn't mean I don't understand his thoughts or respect them.
Moreover, Rix has earned respect both with his general conduct and his blade. Show it. For that matter, start doing some thinking before you open your mouth. If you did, you might not get into so much trouble.
Percy
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 03 Sep 1999 16:46:48 EDT
Cas,
I must agree with Percy on that one. I respect Rix for giving Agrenish a chance to prove himself, and I guess the same would go for him willing to step in for Methous. I would have done the same, for Methous told me he would "behave" if he became a Baron. I did not really believe him, but I thought he deserved the chance. Besides, I was not too fond of Eros being a Baron.
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 03 Sep 1999 16:46:48 EDT
Cas,
I must agree with Percy on that one. I respect Rix for giving Agrenish a chance to prove himself, and I guess the same would go for him willing to step in for Methous. I would have done the same, for Methous told me he would "behave" if he became a Baron. I did not really believe him, but I thought he deserved the chance. Besides, I was not too fond of Eros being a Baron.
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris