From: elijaheagleecore@aol.com (ElijahEagleEcore)
Date: 27 Sep 1999 09:54:37 EDT
Drey,
You will find much hypocrisy in these rings. Lupton will turn around and try to enforce the "tradition" to his favor when he is on one side of the coin. Then when he flips to the side of the coin where he is effected he trys to still get it in his favor with lies. Get used to it.
As Guardian of the Seventh till Draco fails me,
~Elijah Eagle Ecore~
~Baron of Swords~
Custom, Tradition, or Rule?
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From: elijaheagleecore@aol.com (ElijahEagleEcore)
Date: 27 Sep 1999 09:56:20 EDT
Simini,
Obviously, if you paid attention to the Bishop's lessons I was referring to the fact you might have been able to keep a record of befitting a Warlord or better.
If you would like an example I could always retire my ring and come take your ring to show who learned their lessons better in skill.
Date: 27 Sep 1999 09:56:20 EDT
Simini,
Obviously, if you paid attention to the Bishop's lessons I was referring to the fact you might have been able to keep a record of befitting a Warlord or better.
If you would like an example I could always retire my ring and come take your ring to show who learned their lessons better in skill.
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From: novagreys@aol.com (Nova GreyS)
Date: 27 Sep 1999 10:18:29 EDT
Stuck haphazardly amongst the postings:
"Wow, Elijah ... get over yourself.
You've got an uncanny knack of pushing any blame off of yourself. I believe some people refer to this as 'acute denial'. In all the years I've known you, I don't think I've ever heard you accept any responsibility for anything or even say 'you know ... I might be in the wrong here'. There's rarely one person the blame squarely falls on. In many situations in this Arena, the blame falls on both sides.
Perhaps you should step back and take a good, long look at what your attitude has brought you over the years. As someone that's been around this place since long before you came around, I can tell you right now that at least 80% of the people you perceive as having wronged you or turned against you have done so as a reaction to one of the many attitudes you have presented in your time.
Despite what you may think, many of those around here have better things to do than to sit around a dark room and come up with various ways of screwing you over and make you a friendless, social outcast. If there is a conspiracy out there to make you constantly 'wrong' in all things great and small, I'm disappointed that I wasn't invited to the table because I like conspiracies.
- Nova
PS: Stop blaming everything on Lupton. He's not intelligent or charismatic enough to taint anyone, are you, Loop?"
Date: 27 Sep 1999 10:18:29 EDT
Stuck haphazardly amongst the postings:
"Wow, Elijah ... get over yourself.
You've got an uncanny knack of pushing any blame off of yourself. I believe some people refer to this as 'acute denial'. In all the years I've known you, I don't think I've ever heard you accept any responsibility for anything or even say 'you know ... I might be in the wrong here'. There's rarely one person the blame squarely falls on. In many situations in this Arena, the blame falls on both sides.
Perhaps you should step back and take a good, long look at what your attitude has brought you over the years. As someone that's been around this place since long before you came around, I can tell you right now that at least 80% of the people you perceive as having wronged you or turned against you have done so as a reaction to one of the many attitudes you have presented in your time.
Despite what you may think, many of those around here have better things to do than to sit around a dark room and come up with various ways of screwing you over and make you a friendless, social outcast. If there is a conspiracy out there to make you constantly 'wrong' in all things great and small, I'm disappointed that I wasn't invited to the table because I like conspiracies.
- Nova
PS: Stop blaming everything on Lupton. He's not intelligent or charismatic enough to taint anyone, are you, Loop?"
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From: xxzenrisingxx@aol.com (Xx Zen Rising xX)
Date: 27 Sep 1999 11:13:25 EDT
>If you would like an example I could always retire my ring and come take your
>ring to show who learned their lessons better in skill.
I thought about making some smarmy comment in reply to this to point out the obvious ludicrousness of someone expecting someone else to maintain a close relationship with him while at the same time making threats such as these, not to mention the fact that someone who took over four and a half years from the first time he won a baron's ring to get his first defense probably shouldn't be talking up his skill.
But then I realized it pretty much speaks for itself. Besides, other people are much better at that sort of thing than I am.
Date: 27 Sep 1999 11:13:25 EDT
>If you would like an example I could always retire my ring and come take your
>ring to show who learned their lessons better in skill.
I thought about making some smarmy comment in reply to this to point out the obvious ludicrousness of someone expecting someone else to maintain a close relationship with him while at the same time making threats such as these, not to mention the fact that someone who took over four and a half years from the first time he won a baron's ring to get his first defense probably shouldn't be talking up his skill.
But then I realized it pretty much speaks for itself. Besides, other people are much better at that sort of thing than I am.
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From: rdiscad@aol.com (RDI Scad)
Date: 27 Sep 1999 11:24:53 EDT
Simi,
I dinnae know if t'is what ye meant, but ye mention in yer reply ta Kal, "I believe, Kal, that you and I are simply discussing differing portions of the Rules - one contention is irrelevant to the other."
Actually, the portion Kal quoted directly follows the one ye did. The relevant text as t'is written, in full:
And where not specifically addressed all challenges must be answered within one week of validation (by the Date/Time stamp) and dueled within two weeks of the response. Any challenge not responded to within one week, setting a time and place, shall be considered an abdication.
That said, I'll give me opinion on the matter. As Kal stated, by the rules t'is the responsibility of the Challenged ta reply with time, date, and place. However, there've been several cases over the past few months when this has come inta contestion, and every time (except the case in which the the Ring in question was destroyed), by both word of the officials and the Barons' Council, Challenger and Challenged have been told ta find a
compromise.
My view would be that the Challenged has preference on time, date, and setting, but preference is nae law written in stone.
Turienal Lodrelhai Castle
Assistant Supervisor, Historian
Duel of Swords
Date: 27 Sep 1999 11:24:53 EDT
Simi,
I dinnae know if t'is what ye meant, but ye mention in yer reply ta Kal, "I believe, Kal, that you and I are simply discussing differing portions of the Rules - one contention is irrelevant to the other."
Actually, the portion Kal quoted directly follows the one ye did. The relevant text as t'is written, in full:
And where not specifically addressed all challenges must be answered within one week of validation (by the Date/Time stamp) and dueled within two weeks of the response. Any challenge not responded to within one week, setting a time and place, shall be considered an abdication.
That said, I'll give me opinion on the matter. As Kal stated, by the rules t'is the responsibility of the Challenged ta reply with time, date, and place. However, there've been several cases over the past few months when this has come inta contestion, and every time (except the case in which the the Ring in question was destroyed), by both word of the officials and the Barons' Council, Challenger and Challenged have been told ta find a
compromise.
My view would be that the Challenged has preference on time, date, and setting, but preference is nae law written in stone.
Turienal Lodrelhai Castle
Assistant Supervisor, Historian
Duel of Swords
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 27 Sep 1999 12:00:08 EDT
> Believe it or not, I agree with what you stated.
If you believe that to be the case, my dear, then one of us is doing a terrible job of interpreting what the other is saying. So far as I can tell, our points are in direct opposition to one another.
You have stated that the rules require the title holder and the challenger to meet in a compromise as to when the match is to be fought. There is nothing in the rules to support this claim, other than assumptions you are drawing from the clause stating the duel must be fought within two weeks of the response. That you draw this conclusion, does not make it a rule.
The portion of the rules that I quoted has been interpreted to be the rule. That being, that the title holder maintains the right to set the time and date as he pleases, without regard to the challenger. The fact that no challenge has been ruled forfeit due to it doesn't make it any less the ruling.. Were that the case, we might as well say that the Overlord may not choose a commoner to be his champion... it too has never been done.
Again, I do not wish to enter into a debate with you as to the semantics of the Universal Terms of Challenge and how they *should* be interpreted. What I am addressing is your statement that:
> The rule requires both parties to agree upon a date, time and
> official and complete the match. Custom and tradition require nothing.
This statement is simply incorrect. Even if you wish to argue that common law does not apply and, therefore, the past interpretation cannot be held as the rule.. there remains no "rule" to support your claim. Deciding against common law as rule, the best either of us would have to rely on would be tradition... despite your claim that tradition requires nothing.
By tradition then - The title holder has the right to choose date and time. Further more, it is traditional that the title holder take common courtesy into account and cooperate with the challenger as to the setting of these details. I would put forth as reason for this, that forfeits are taken to the Barons Council (as the challengers failure to appear would be a forfeit) and most councils would look unfavorably upon the Baron who acted in this
way... hence, I imagine very few barons would expect the council to rule in their favor in such a case and, therefore, avoid it by being at least somewhat cooperative.
Overall, however, your opinion does not have rule of law to back it up. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion of what the rule should be... but I fear that alone does not make your statement of the rules correct... rather, it remains your opinion.
~ Kalamere
Date: 27 Sep 1999 12:00:08 EDT
> Believe it or not, I agree with what you stated.
If you believe that to be the case, my dear, then one of us is doing a terrible job of interpreting what the other is saying. So far as I can tell, our points are in direct opposition to one another.
You have stated that the rules require the title holder and the challenger to meet in a compromise as to when the match is to be fought. There is nothing in the rules to support this claim, other than assumptions you are drawing from the clause stating the duel must be fought within two weeks of the response. That you draw this conclusion, does not make it a rule.
The portion of the rules that I quoted has been interpreted to be the rule. That being, that the title holder maintains the right to set the time and date as he pleases, without regard to the challenger. The fact that no challenge has been ruled forfeit due to it doesn't make it any less the ruling.. Were that the case, we might as well say that the Overlord may not choose a commoner to be his champion... it too has never been done.
Again, I do not wish to enter into a debate with you as to the semantics of the Universal Terms of Challenge and how they *should* be interpreted. What I am addressing is your statement that:
> The rule requires both parties to agree upon a date, time and
> official and complete the match. Custom and tradition require nothing.
This statement is simply incorrect. Even if you wish to argue that common law does not apply and, therefore, the past interpretation cannot be held as the rule.. there remains no "rule" to support your claim. Deciding against common law as rule, the best either of us would have to rely on would be tradition... despite your claim that tradition requires nothing.
By tradition then - The title holder has the right to choose date and time. Further more, it is traditional that the title holder take common courtesy into account and cooperate with the challenger as to the setting of these details. I would put forth as reason for this, that forfeits are taken to the Barons Council (as the challengers failure to appear would be a forfeit) and most councils would look unfavorably upon the Baron who acted in this
way... hence, I imagine very few barons would expect the council to rule in their favor in such a case and, therefore, avoid it by being at least somewhat cooperative.
Overall, however, your opinion does not have rule of law to back it up. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion of what the rule should be... but I fear that alone does not make your statement of the rules correct... rather, it remains your opinion.
~ Kalamere
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From: xaviertn@aol.com (XavierTN)
Date: 27 Sep 1999 22:31:32 EDT
A soft smile caresses his lips as an earlier post catches his eye. As Elijah seems to feel now, many in the past have as well, but the explanation is simple:
The attention placed on any single individual, is directly proportional to one's stupidity actions.
Simply meaning the more simp the action, the more people shall take notice.
Quietly he slips away from the cork, nothing left to hint he was ever present this day.
Date: 27 Sep 1999 22:31:32 EDT
A soft smile caresses his lips as an earlier post catches his eye. As Elijah seems to feel now, many in the past have as well, but the explanation is simple:
The attention placed on any single individual, is directly proportional to one's stupidity actions.
Simply meaning the more simp the action, the more people shall take notice.
Quietly he slips away from the cork, nothing left to hint he was ever present this day.
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From: zamhulem@aol.com (Zamhulem)
Date: 28 Sep 1999 13:16:23 EDT
"The attention placed on any single individual, is directly proportional to one's stupidity actions.
Simply meaning the more simp the action, the more people shall take notice. "
Heh Ya hear that folks? So if yer feelin like no one notices you or when no one seems to pay you any mind. Don't feel bad. It's just all of us complimenting you on yer remarkable intellect. ::walks from the cork chuckling::
Zamhulem protector of the meek and weilder of SoulBinder
Date: 28 Sep 1999 13:16:23 EDT
"The attention placed on any single individual, is directly proportional to one's stupidity actions.
Simply meaning the more simp the action, the more people shall take notice. "
Heh Ya hear that folks? So if yer feelin like no one notices you or when no one seems to pay you any mind. Don't feel bad. It's just all of us complimenting you on yer remarkable intellect. ::walks from the cork chuckling::
Zamhulem protector of the meek and weilder of SoulBinder
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From: thshighwaymen9@aol.com (THS Highwaymen 9)
Date: 28 Sep 1999 20:15:46 EDT
Eeep! Silly creatures non-elves are!
What a hoot Ecore! Ecore guy is! A crazy hoot, riot, a riot!
In my village, pompous whiners were given soapboxes, boxes! They used boxes, soapboxes! Boxes used to stand, and whine, and whine and whine, and cry, and spread their higher-than-thou views upon the lillies in the middle of the lonliest valley, for that's where they were taken!
I tell you, you! Eep! They gained a much larger audience out there than in any ole towne, yip yup!
::giggles::
Poor old guy, make much fun of new creatures in cellar, but, but! Eep! He get much insulted, poor poor poor, feelings much hurt! Everyone be better to he; he special cause he much experienced in duels! Pwash!
Traditions, smamishions, I know no traditions! Eep! I bring new customs, I change lots, unless, of course, this is the community wherever whiney guy sets down his customs as rule! Rules set in stone! Stone! Eep!
Eep!
Silly creatures; whiney people get a nice fancy soapbox with free parchment, ehm, ehm? All read it, oip! Soapbox for whiney people work much better in open field, yes yes! Their speech mesh much better with the droning of the large bees than the quieter townsfolk, yes yes? Eep!
Fuezzah.
Date: 28 Sep 1999 20:15:46 EDT
Eeep! Silly creatures non-elves are!
What a hoot Ecore! Ecore guy is! A crazy hoot, riot, a riot!
In my village, pompous whiners were given soapboxes, boxes! They used boxes, soapboxes! Boxes used to stand, and whine, and whine and whine, and cry, and spread their higher-than-thou views upon the lillies in the middle of the lonliest valley, for that's where they were taken!
I tell you, you! Eep! They gained a much larger audience out there than in any ole towne, yip yup!
::giggles::
Poor old guy, make much fun of new creatures in cellar, but, but! Eep! He get much insulted, poor poor poor, feelings much hurt! Everyone be better to he; he special cause he much experienced in duels! Pwash!
Traditions, smamishions, I know no traditions! Eep! I bring new customs, I change lots, unless, of course, this is the community wherever whiney guy sets down his customs as rule! Rules set in stone! Stone! Eep!
Eep!
Silly creatures; whiney people get a nice fancy soapbox with free parchment, ehm, ehm? All read it, oip! Soapbox for whiney people work much better in open field, yes yes! Their speech mesh much better with the droning of the large bees than the quieter townsfolk, yes yes? Eep!
Fuezzah.
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 28 Sep 1999 20:27:29 EDT
Okay Jeffy, listen closely, yes?
"I feel it absolutely necessary dat both challenger and baron agree on a date and time."
You.
"I do acknowledge da tradition dat challenged barons are often given da right ta set da date and time ta deir liking"
You again.
"You 'never' said it was necessary for my challenge versus Lupton that the we both agreed upon the date. In fact, you claimed it tradition and that he is right and allowed."
Me.
Okay, next subject.
"Any one of my challengers will tell you I approach and ask deir input fer a suitable date. I never once have set a date a challenger could not attend." You.
"You did say that you set the date with the challenger's input." Me, pervious posting.
Either you misread it or you're speaking to the crowd. Just in case it was towards me, I already knew that as it was written. Just in case.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
Date: 28 Sep 1999 20:27:29 EDT
Okay Jeffy, listen closely, yes?
"I feel it absolutely necessary dat both challenger and baron agree on a date and time."
You.
"I do acknowledge da tradition dat challenged barons are often given da right ta set da date and time ta deir liking"
You again.
"You 'never' said it was necessary for my challenge versus Lupton that the we both agreed upon the date. In fact, you claimed it tradition and that he is right and allowed."
Me.
Okay, next subject.
"Any one of my challengers will tell you I approach and ask deir input fer a suitable date. I never once have set a date a challenger could not attend." You.
"You did say that you set the date with the challenger's input." Me, pervious posting.
Either you misread it or you're speaking to the crowd. Just in case it was towards me, I already knew that as it was written. Just in case.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 28 Sep 1999 20:29:35 EDT
>>In my village, pompous whiners were given soapboxes, boxes! They used boxes, soapboxes! Boxes used to stand, and whine, and whine and whine, and cry, and spread their higher-than-thou views upon the lillies in the middle of the lonliest valley, for that's where they were taken!<<
This idea has merit.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Reigning Baron of the Eighth
Former Baron of the Sixth
Mage in DoM
"I am an honorable man, but to duel me is not a pleasant experience, if only for the pain"
Date: 28 Sep 1999 20:29:35 EDT
>>In my village, pompous whiners were given soapboxes, boxes! They used boxes, soapboxes! Boxes used to stand, and whine, and whine and whine, and cry, and spread their higher-than-thou views upon the lillies in the middle of the lonliest valley, for that's where they were taken!<<
This idea has merit.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Reigning Baron of the Eighth
Former Baron of the Sixth
Mage in DoM
"I am an honorable man, but to duel me is not a pleasant experience, if only for the pain"
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From: jeffoakenshield@aol.com (Jeff Oakenshield)
Date: 28 Sep 1999 21:40:38 EDT
Once again, I fail ta see what point yer tryin' ta make.
Yes, I acknowledge and will state choosing dat date and time as a tradition of da baron and him or her alone.
No, I don't follow dat practice myself, but I will not hold other barons ta do da same.
Yes, Lupton asked me ta inform ya of da tradition since ya didn't believe him.
Yes, I did.
Any other questions Drey?
~J
Date: 28 Sep 1999 21:40:38 EDT
Once again, I fail ta see what point yer tryin' ta make.
Yes, I acknowledge and will state choosing dat date and time as a tradition of da baron and him or her alone.
No, I don't follow dat practice myself, but I will not hold other barons ta do da same.
Yes, Lupton asked me ta inform ya of da tradition since ya didn't believe him.
Yes, I did.
Any other questions Drey?
~J
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From: mariusix@aol.com (Marius IX)
Date: 29 Sep 1999 00:05:59 EDT
A fancy soapbox? Does that beat a Thrust?
::Smudged and smelling powerfully of Scotch::
::Unsigned::
Date: 29 Sep 1999 00:05:59 EDT
A fancy soapbox? Does that beat a Thrust?
::Smudged and smelling powerfully of Scotch::
::Unsigned::
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 29 Sep 1999 20:30:49 EDT
You stated it was necessary, but to me you said he can do whatever he wishes.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
Date: 29 Sep 1999 20:30:49 EDT
You stated it was necessary, but to me you said he can do whatever he wishes.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
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From: jeffoakenshield@aol.com (Jeff Oakenshield)
Date: 30 Sep 1999 04:18:58 EDT
Lupton *can* do whatever he wishes when ya challenge him.
You *can* dispute his decision should you find it unfair.
I *do* feel its necessary fer consent between challenger and baron.
It is *not* a rule, simply somethin' I state as necessary.
Anyhow, yer just arguin' ta argue now, so I'm puttin' da issue ta rest.
~J
Date: 30 Sep 1999 04:18:58 EDT
Lupton *can* do whatever he wishes when ya challenge him.
You *can* dispute his decision should you find it unfair.
I *do* feel its necessary fer consent between challenger and baron.
It is *not* a rule, simply somethin' I state as necessary.
Anyhow, yer just arguin' ta argue now, so I'm puttin' da issue ta rest.
~J